Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 15:09:34 -0700
From: chrisr5 chrisr5@concentric.net
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
  Subject:  New stories

FYI There are two new short stories that Joyce Carol Oates has written:
You can find THE WAKE in the Fall, 1997 Ploughshares Magazine and UGLY
GIRL in the Summer, 1997 edition of The Paris Review.



Date: Sat, 18 Oct 1997 01:32:29 -0400 (EDT)
 From:  Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To:  JCO@usfca.edu

Hi  I used to be Elektra200@aol.com but now I'm at college :) Once again, my name
is Jennifer and I'm an avid JCO fan - I've read a lot of her books - my
faves are Foxfire and American Appetites. A long time ago, I spoke with
someone really cool about the magical realism in Bellefluers and in
Marquez's One Hundred Years of Solitude - whoever that was, I loved our
conversation and I would love if you would email me again so we could
finish that conversation.

I finished Man Crazy a few weeks ago - Im not sure what the dicussion on
the list has been - I was generally impressed ...

Anyway, enough of my late night rambling.

- jen

"how i long to fall just a little bit, to dance out of the lines and stray
from the light."
- dar williams



To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   Re: New stories
From:   composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
 Date:  Sun, 19 Oct 1997 12:09:36 EDT

Isn't George Plimpton invovled in "The Paris Review" somehow.  It seems
his name always pops up there.  Also, readers may want to know that JCO's
"Will You Always Love Me?"  was selected for the Best Mystery Short
Stories of 1997, edited by Robert B. Parker and now available in
bookstores.
Guest editors for the other genres include: Fiction, E. Annie Proulx; and
essay, Ian Frazier.

David



Date:  Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:47:44 +0000
From:  F Schwartz fabela@gte.net
 To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: New stories

Plimpton is Numero Uno Editor of Paris Review.

It's his "baby"...

Francie



 From:   ken_y@primenet.com
 Date:   Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:37:00 -0700
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Man Crazy

 Matthew A Cheney writes:
> ...
>
>But I've also begun to count Oates as one of my favorite authors.  Her
>works take up a whole shelf on my bookcase.
> ...

Only one shelf?

     ---==>Ken



To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  G. Plimpton
 From: composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date:  Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:35:24 EDT

I thought he was the head banana at "Paris." George Plimpton is a neat
guy, really, though.  He was one of 7 writers I worked with last year who
wrote an exclusive piece for a literary journal I published in the Spring
of '97.  Funny guy.  Pretty neat.

David



To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: Man Crazy
From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date:  Sun, 19 Oct 1997 13:35:24 EDT

Also, depends on the size of the shelf. :-)
David

On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 09:37:00 -0700 ken_y@primenet.com writes:
> Matthew A Cheney writes:
>> ...
>>
>>But I've also begun to count Oates as one of my favorite authors.  
>Her
>>works take up a whole shelf on my bookcase.
>> ...
>
>Only one shelf?
>
>     ---==>Ken



Date: Sun, 19 Oct 1997 23:58:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Matthew A Cheney macheney@christa.unh.edu
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:   Re: Man Crazy

On Sun, 19 Oct 1997 ken_y@primenet.com wrote:

>  Matthew A Cheney writes:
> > ...
> >
> >But I've also begun to count Oates as one of my favorite authors.  Her
> >works take up a whole shelf on my bookcase.
> > ...
> 
> Only one shelf?
> 
>      ---==>Ken
> 
> 
Hey, I wrote that a while ago!

Matt



From: diamond@math.wvu.edu (Harvey Diamond)
Subject:  song
 To: jco@usfca.edu
Date:  Mon, 20 Oct 1997 09:31:58 -0400 (EDT)

Has anybody made (does anybody agree with) the observation that the
recent popular song "Sunny Came Home" has a rather Oatesian sound and
theme? Here are the words (I just pulled them up on the web with one search).
It's even better with the music.

Shawn COLVIN "Sunny Came Home" 


                    Sunny came home to her favorite room
                    Sunny sat down in the kitchen
                    She opened a book and a box of tools
                    Sunny came home with a mission

                    She says days go by I'm hypnotized
                    I'm walking on a wire
                    I close my eyes and fly out of my mind
                    Into the fire

                    Sunny came home with a list of names
                    She didn't believe in transcendence
                    It's time for a few small repairs she said
                    Sunny came home with a vengeance

                    She says days go by I don't know why
                    I'm walking on a wire
                    I close my eyes and fly out of my mind
                    Into the fire

                    Get the kids and bring a sweater
                    Dry is good and wind is better
                    Count the years, you always knew it
                    Strike a match, go on and do it

                    Days go by I'm hypnotized
                    I'm walking on a wire
                    I close my eyes and fly out of my mind
                    Into the fire
                    Light the sky and hold on tight
                    The world is burning down
                    She's out there on her own and she's alright
                    Sunny came home
                    Sunny came home...


1996 (Shawn Colvin / John Leventhal )
LP: A Few Small Repairs (AGF Music Ltd. / Scred Songs / WB Music Corp.)



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date: Mon, 20 Oct 1997 20:33:40 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: New stories


George Plimpton has a great little article in the Oct. 13 New Yorker on
Truman Capote's experience researching and writing "In Cold Blood." as told
by the prison officials who met and worked with him.  Very interesting.
 Cyrano.



To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Truman Capote & Plimpton
From: composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 12:10:02 EDT

George Plimpton has a new biography of Truman Capote out.  It's written
like an oral history, from what I gather.  Somewhat like Thomas Hauser's
1991 biography of Muhammad Ali.

David



Date: Tue, 21 Oct 1997 09:58:53 +0000
From: "F. Schwartz" fabela@gte.net
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Truman Capote & Plimpton

David: Plimpton's "oral biography" has been touted by Liz Smith in the
Daily News, and she used a very nasty quote from that curmudgeon Gore
Vidal, who says Capote lied for artistic reasons while Lillian Hellman
lied to make herself seem more important.  I was so furious I fired off
an Email to the Post.  In any case, Plimpton did this same treatment on
Edie Sedgwick, late of Warhol's Factory gang.

It's kind of a fluffy way of writing a biography, but Capote deserves
fluffy treatment, in my opinion.

Francie



To:  jco@usfca.edu
From:   "Debee Loyd" msbach@thevision.net
 Subject:  Re: Truman Capote & Plimpton
 Date:  Tue, 21 Oct 97 09:43:28 PDT

i know this is an old subject but i need to find a copy of "Where are you
going, where have you been"...in a magazine or something.  can you help??

grateful,


debee loyd



From:  composer2@juno.com
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Date: Wed, 22 Oct 1997 03:57:27 -0400
  Subject:  Where are you going...

Where are you going... is widley available in anthologies and books. 
Look at a local Barnes and Noble for a book by the same title, subtitled
"Collected Early Stories" and published by Ontario Review Press, JCO's
own publishing production

David


On Tue, 21 Oct 97 09:43:28 PDT "Debee Loyd" 
writes:
>i know this is an old subject but i need to find a copy of "Where are 
>you
>going, where have you been"...in a magazine or something.  can you 
>help??
>
>grateful,
>
>
>debee loyd



 Date:  Tue, 21 Oct 1997 18:18:11 -0700
 From:   Randy Souther Randy Souther
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: Where are you going...

composer2@juno.com wrote:

> Where are you going... is widley available in anthologies and
> books.
> Look at a local Barnes and Noble for a book by the same title,
> subtitled
> "Collected Early Stories" and published by Ontario Review Press,
> JCO's
> own publishing production
>  

And it's also available here:
http://storm.usfca.edu/~southerr/wgoing.html

Randy



From:  Cyranomish@aol.com
 Date:  Wed, 22 Oct 1997 06:19:45 -0400 (EDT)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   Re: Truman Capote & Plimpton

David, thanks for the info on the Plimpton book.  I've ordered a copy thru my
local library.
I enjoyed the excerpt I read in the New Yorker.  The mosaic of various
people's impressions is a very engaging technique.  I look forward to reading
more.  Mr. Capote wasn't a particularly nice fellow, but he ventured into
strange regions where few writers as talented and disciplined as he seldom
venture. Like Gore Vidal, I'm always eager to get as far away as possible
from university settings and attitudes.   Cyrano



To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  George Plimpton
 From:   composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date:  Wed, 22 Oct 1997 08:41:07 EDT

Lord, I've done more for George Plimpton through this than for Oates. 
Hmmm...

David.



Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:43:24 -0700
 From:  Randy Souther Randy Souther
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  [Fwd: Slight]

This message got bounced from the list for some reason.
 
 

> From: diamond@math.wvu.edu (Harvey Diamond)
> Subject: slight
> To: jco@usfca.edu
> Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 09:24

> Hey, did anyone see the gratuitious swipe at JCO in this week's
> New Republic?
> I don't have it here with me, but they were complaining about
> Dario Fo
> winning the Nobel Prize and made some comment to the effect that
> at
> least the Nobel Committee didn't go totally nuts and pick the
> perennially shortlisted Joyce Carol Oates. The smirky boys have
> now gone
> too far, now they're picking on JCO -- cancel my subsription!



To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Date:  Fri, 24 Oct 1997 10:32:58 -0700
 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Slight]
From:  cambre@juno.com (JOHN CAMBRE)

>
>> Hey, did anyone see the gratuitious swipe at JCO in this week's
>> New Republic? I don't have it here with me, but they were complaining
about
>> Dario Fo winning the Nobel Prize and made some comment to the effect
that
>> at  least the Nobel Committee didn't go totally nuts and pick the
>> perennially shortlisted Joyce Carol Oates. The smirky boys have
>> now gone  too far, now they're picking on JCO -- cancel my
subsription!
>

I've often wondered in what direction the "New Republic" is going; it
seems like the editors can't decide if they want to be a journal of
public affairs with some cultural content, or whether they want to be an
"attitude" rag.  



Date:  Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:36:02 -0400 (EDT)
From:   Matthew A Cheney macheney@christa.unh.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: [Fwd: Slight]

Did you really expect taste from The New Republic?  Fo's award was one of
the most exciting Nobels of recent years.  With any luck,  Oates's time
will come, too.

Matt Cheney



From:  Ehaggar@aol.com
Date:  Fri, 24 Oct 1997 13:41:39 -0400 (EDT)
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: [Fwd: Slight]

I am forever in a state of rage over the Nobel Prize for Literature---once
they refused to give it to Graham Greene, I realized we were doomed forever
to minority authors in thisi country and totally unread authors in other
countries.  Oates has deserved the prize for years, but she will never get
it......

Ellen Haggar



To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:   RE: Slight
From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
 Date:  Fri, 24 Oct 1997 14:52:56 EDT

If they will give a Nobel to Wole Soyinka and not Achebe; one to Toni
Morrison and not John Updike; does it surprise you that Oates was
snubbed, and not only snubbed, but demeaned by the rag that was "The New
Republic?"  Frankly, I'm not surprised.  I can't wait until the Nobel's
come out again: the way they are handing them out, even Sidney Sheldon
has a chance!  (Did anyone read Sheldon's recent, "The Best Laid Plans?" 
Uggh.  Sara Paretsky, a good mystery novelist in her own right, once told
me I had to read trash in order to know what to avoid.  "Best Laid"
pushes the boundaries of trash!  If Warner Books is desparate to sign
book deals, I'm available.)

DAVID

p.s.  -- judging among contemporary Nobel recipients, only Nadine
Gordimer and Gabriel Garcia Marquez seem the most deserving.  We're
talking LIFE'S WORK here.  Not to down Toni Morrison, but Joyce Carol
Oates' body of work is MUCH, MUCH, MUCH more diverse, ecumenical, and
perhaps enjoyable.  I loved Song of Solomon, but honey give me What I
Lived For any day above that.  Yes, criticize me for my unfair comparison
(remember the Margaret Atwood saga--).



Date: Fri, 24 Oct 1997 15:53:34 -0400 (EDT)
 From:   Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  RE: Slight

i must interject! i love jco and i think she deserves a nobel! but i can
definitely see giving morrison a nobel over updike - its not quantity but
quality. morrison has written intensely lyrical amazing novels. she has
touched subjects (ie. the life of a slave) that other authors have run
from and continue to run from. she can write fluidly, beautifully,
amazingly and i have received more pleasure from her novels than any of
updike's. we do agree however, marquez deserves his nobel. he is also
amazing. i think the nobel has a history of shafting people - take jorge
luis borges for example. he is one of teh greatest geniuses that ever
loved and he won nothing. and he joked about it in much of his fiction. oh
well.

- jen

"laughing and crying, it's the same release."
- the amazing joni mitchell



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date:  Fri, 24 Oct 1997 17:02:51 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: [Fwd: Slight]

Ellen, I'm with you 100% re Graham Greene.  And of course JCO.  Just goes to
show that those big awards shouldn't be taken as gospel. Cyrano



To:  jco@usfca.edu
  Subject:  The Nobel Saga continued
From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
 Date:   Fri, 24 Oct 1997 18:36:38 EDT

     Morrison writes about good issues, good topics, etc. etc.  her
depiction of slave life is the best since, or even better than, Haley's
"Roots."  Most of Morrison's work, however, seems to center on the black
plight, the slave predicament, and so on.  Her appeal is not universal,
necessarily.  
     Updike, on the contrary, has written on everything from marital woes
(Couples, The Afterlife, Too Far to Go, etc.)  to presidential anecdotes,
comparisons, memories (Memories of the Ford Administration, Buchanan
Dying) to foreign nations (Brazil) to the sublime (Witches of Eastwick)
to God and America (In the Beauty of the Lillies) to the millenium
(Towards the End of Time) to criticisms (Hugging the Shore, etc.) to golf
and so on and so on,  and in every medium: the novel, short story, poem,
drama, criticism, non-fiction.  He's an amazing literary presence, and
should have had the Nobel  when he got his second Pulitzer AND the
Howells medal.  We "Updike-ians" thought that after Brazil, he was a
shoo-in for it.  But, once again the Nobel committee steers clear.  It's
almost time for an American to win again, though.  
     My feeling is if Updike can't win, neither can JCO.  I think that
JCO may be a bit too contemporary for the Nobel, but whatever their
reasoning, I've learned to disregard that prize after they chose that
Polish lady last year.  Who had ever heard of her?  Even in great
literary circles she wasn't much of a presence.  There are so many great
writers going unnoticed and unrecognized.
     Maybe their could be a campaign for the Nobel like the one they put
on for Academy Awards.  Hmmm...

DAVID



 Date:  Fri, 24 Oct 1997 19:22:00 -0400 (EDT)
 From:  Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To:    jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: The Nobel Saga continued

david,

i don't think the appeal of any author is "universal." i consider myself a
serious reader and i have never really been attracted to updike's work. i
think what makes morrison's work terrific is that it transcends simply
being about the "black plight." to take song of solomon and look at it,
one can see it as a story aout defining what it means to be black, what it
means to be a man, what it means to go on a more contemporary odyssey,
what it means to seek out where you came from. i think thats what makes
her terrific - the complexity of her words.

do i think jco deserves a nobel? yes. do i think she will win one? no. i
hosted nyt book chat for a while and i was talking about jco and someone
said that the reason she doesn't have universal appeal is because she is
"too esoteric." go figure...

just a little advertisement for those of you have aol...the new york times
hosts a terrific book chat wed night @ 10 pm (eastern time) - (i used to
host...so pardon my nostalgia) and sometimes its an open forum, other
times there is a specific topic. keyword nyt chat.

enjoy.

- jen

"laughing and crying, it's the same release."
- the amazing joni mitchell    



To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   HEAT and other stories
From:   composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
 Date:  Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:15:13 EDT

I've just re-read some of the stories collected in JCO's short-story
collection, "Heat and other stories."  Has anyone read the title story,
"Heat?"  WOW, what themes it has!  Oates says much about many things,
including twins.  I happen to be fascinated with twins as my two best
friends are twins, and much of what JCO illustrates in "Heat" is true of
twins, although neither of my friends are nearly as mischevious as Oates'
imagined twins.  Any thoughts?  Also, in a not-so-related topic of "What
are you reading now?" as far as novels go, I am into Reyonlds Price's
"The Promise of Rest."  Not so bad, for Price at least.  And also, I am
reading "Mr. Vertigo" by Paul Auster (who wrote the magnificent, "Music
of Chance") and in literary criticism, I am reading James Dickey's 1974
journals and essays, "Sorties."  And what are YOU reading?

DAVID



 Date:  Sat, 25 Oct 1997 23:47:29 -0400 (EDT)
 From:   Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: HEAT and other stories

What am I reading? Well, ever since I got to school, finding time for
pleasure reading has been very hard. But I do have some reccomendations
collected from the summer and the beginning of the school year - Patron
Saint of Liars by Ann Patchett is absolutely delicious, Amrita by Banana
Yoshimoto, I re-read Fountainhead just a few weeks ago and I loved it even
more the third time. Also, if there are any DOuglas Coupland fans out
there (I ADORE him) his newest has been pushed back until Winter 1998 - I
am thinking of starting a support group or something.

Happy reading :)

- jen

"laughing and crying, it's the same release."
- the amazing joni mitchell



To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Coupland
From:  composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date:   Sun, 26 Oct 1997 09:37:32 EST

I read somewhere that Douglas Coupland just got a new editor or publisher
or something like that.  For some reason his name just sticks out to me. 
Also, the only book by him that I know of is "microsurfs" or something. 
Not a huge fan.

DAVID



From:   Cyranomish@aol.com
 Date:  Sun, 26 Oct 1997 11:05:28 -0500 (EST)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: HEAT and other stories

David, HEAT certainly is an engaging story.  You know what gets me about it?
 The narrative voice.  The woman recalling her impressions of the rise and
fall of the Kunkle twins is so engrossing.  What their hold on her was and
what their deaths did to her notion of sexuality (Why, I like to ask classes,
does the narrator pick the ice house parking lot for her adultrous trysts
many years after the twins die? )  In a bizarre way, the story's about a pair
of twins that was almost triplets.  The scene under the porch where the three
girls undress and the narrator thinks that they all look like the same girl
gives me the shivers!  Once again JCO is showing how personalities blur, how
people act on each other.  Remember her old story "The Dead" where the
protagonist Illena has an epiphany at the end in which all the people she
ever knew are melting down into one big blob of "protoplasm?"  Where do "I"
stop; where do "others" begin? that has always been  a big force in JCO 's
fiction, and one of the reasons I'll always seek out her work.
     Jennifer, so happy to hear about Coupland's new book.  I reviewed
"Microserfs" here in Boston when it came out.  Isn't he a dear!  And he like
birds -- which always wins big points with me.  What was the title of that
earlier novel of his ?.... God is part of the title.
It was a simply-written meditation-story with tiny line drawings here and
there.  I thought
of it when I read JCO's "Zombie" later on, which also used little line
drawings in the text.
I wondered at the time whether she had read the Coupland book and was
playfully bouncing off its technique, as is her way, copious reader that she
is. Let me know if you get a Coupland group started.  Cyrano




Date: Sun, 26 Oct 1997 11:36:24 -0500 (EST)
 From:  Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: HEAT and other stories

Cyrano....

The DC book you're referring to is Life After God - an amazing book of
little stories and drawings....If I ever get a Coupland group started, you
will be the first to know.

- jen

"laughing and crying, it's the same release."
- the amazing joni mitchell



To: jco@usfca.edu
Date:  Mon, 27 Oct 1997 06:05:57 -0800
Subject:  Re: HEAT and other stories
From: cambre@juno.com (JOHN CAMBRE)

 the "HEAT" collection is near and dear to me also. I took it along to
the coast for my honeymoon. I remember reading "Yarrow" on a porch
overlooking the Pacific...

But these observations are of little use to the JCO-net community. I
thought "Heat" was very well done, as you said, but I also found "Family"
the most captivating. That was a riveting piece, I thought, of a madness
written from the inside, something so insidious that you don't realize
the completeness of it at first until she envelops you at the end. I get
chills just remembering the effect it had on me. But, doubtlessly, these
stories were discussed at greater (and more sophisticated) length when
the book was published, which was before I knew of this list.

By the way, currently reading: "Underworld" by DeLillo.



Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 16:32:02 +0000
 From:  "F. Schwartz" fabela@gte.net
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: HEAT and other stories

I don't know about HEAT, but I am one of the major supporter/admirers of
ZOMBIE, both the New Yorker version and the book.  No one writes about
the twilight zone between psychosis and eccentricity better than our
jco...

I would love to discuss the differences between the magazine version and
the hardcover, which came *after*...

Francie



From:  Cyranomish@aol.com
Date:  Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:07:16 -0500 (EST)
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   Re: HEAT and other stories

Hi, John.  I first read HEAT in a little cottage on Martha's Vineyard.  Great
summer fare.  My classes always read "Family."  The most frequently-voiced
comment is "gross."  Cyrano



Date: Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:43:38 -0500 (EST)
 From:   Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
 To:   jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:   Re: HEAT and other stories

cyrano ...

what kind of classes do you teach?

- jen

"...why do we hurtle ourselves through every inch of time and space..."
-- the indigo girls



To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Date:  Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:43:27 -0800
 Subject:  Re: HEAT and other stories
From: cambre@juno.com (JOHN CAMBRE)

On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 14:07:16 -0500 (EST) Cyranomish@aol.com writes:
>My classes always read "Family."  The most frequently-voiced comment is
"gross."  Cyrano


The thing I like about it so much is that she's continuously toying with
the readers' expectations. It's not until a few pages into it that you
realize you can't entirely trust the narrator's perspective, but by that
time, you're enmeshed in the narrator's world. Shirley Jackson also had a
genius for this.



Date:  Mon, 27 Oct 1997 18:49:58 -0500 (EST)
 From:  Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: HEAT and other stories

> 
> The thing I like about it so much is that she's continuously toying with
> the readers' expectations. It's not until a few pages into it that you
> realize you can't entirely trust the narrator's perspective, but by that
> time, you're enmeshed in the narrator's world. Shirley Jackson also had a
> genius for this.
> 

i felt the same way when i read zombie ---- you know you can't trust the
narrator's perspective and you see that you are seeing the world through
the lens of the insane. it's a strange, terrific trip she takes you on in
that novel.



 Date:  Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:48:33 -0800
 From: chrisr5 chrisr5@concentric.net
 To:   jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: HEAT and other stories

JOHN CAMBRE wrote:
> 
>  the "HEAT" collection is near and dear to me also. I took it along to
> the coast for my honeymoon. I remember reading "Yarrow" on a porch
> overlooking the Pacific...
> 
> But these observations are of little use to the JCO-net community. I
> thought "Heat" was very well done, as you said, but I also found "Family"
> the most captivating. That was a riveting piece, I thought, of a madness
> written from the inside, something so insidious that you don't realize
> the completeness of it at first until she envelops you at the end. I get
> chills just remembering the effect it had on me. But, doubtlessly, these
> stories were discussed at greater (and more sophisticated) length when
> the book was published, which was before I knew of this list.
> 
> By the way, currently reading: "Underworld" by DeLillo.

I have tried reading Underworld but reached page 600 and just couldn't
move along anymore. It really never captivated me as a story.
Incidentally, in the current on line issue of New York Times book review
DeLillo has an audio interview.



From:  Cyranomish@aol.com
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 00:30:37 -0500 (EST)
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:   Re: HEAT and other stories

Jennifer: I teach various literature & film courses.  Last summer I ran a
course on the short fiction of JCO plus "them."  The students liked the HEAT
story "The Swimmers" best.  It's one of my favorites too; perhaps because I
swim laps at the Y like the characters in the story.  
     I read all 800+ pages of "Underworld" because I was reviewing it for a
newspaper.  I've read about five other reviews, and thus far mine is the only
negative one.  I'm limited to a 400-word format, fortunately, because I don't
like to pan any book.  The other "Underworld" reviews I read were quite long
and tended to dwell on DeLillo's  high place in American letters.  I thought
the book was a loose collection of fiction-type pieces, some of them
engaging, others boring and undeveloped.  I enjoyed his novel WHITE NOISE
because it was just the right length for the kind of  jumping-around he
apparently likes to do; in other words it was a relatively short book. Also
WHITE NOISE stuck to one small cast of characters. UNDERWORLD just seems to
me an example of the author having fun making a collage of bits and pieces
he's written over many years: that's my hunch. Once all the initial uproar
about UNDERWORLD dies down ('round Xmas, I'd recon) it will be interesting to
see whether it's still regarded as the masterpiece that it's being called
right now.  Cyrano



To:  jco@usfca.edu
Date:  Tue, 28 Oct 1997 08:34:34 -0800
 Subject:  underworld
 From:  cambre@juno.com (JOHN CAMBRE)

On Mon, 27 Oct 1997 19:48:33 -0800 chrisr5 
writes:

>I have tried reading Underworld but reached page 600 and just couldn't
>move along anymore. It really never captivated me as a story.
>Incidentally, in the current on line issue of New York Times book 
>review DeLillo has an audio interview.
>
I first got interested in "Underworld" because I heard an interview with
DeLillo on the NPR "Fresh Air" program. I've never read him before but I
was aware of his reputation, and I was intrigued by the idea of using
modern American, postwar, cold-war life as a canvas for a novel. But I'm
not even to 85 pages yet, so I have to reserve judgement on the book as a
whole. So far, I admire his use of language, but his characters are still
ciphers.



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
 Date:  Tue, 28 Oct 1997 12:50:58 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:   Re: HEAT and other stories

Hi, John,  What I really like about "Family," aside from the dystopian
humor/horror, is the whole theme of brainwashing in families or in
governments.  The family in "Family" is a tiny republic, after all,
surrounded by an electric fence border.  JCO explores the way a totalitarian
system controls thought by controlling word definitions. (Orwell called
totalitarian-controlled language "duckspeak" in 1984, a wonderfully apt
term.)  "Family" is bizarre and grimly funny (read "Thanksgiving" in the
story collection HAUNTED for another "gross" dystopia comedy.)  Her more
recent story "Faithless" (not yet collected in book form -- perhaps in the
forthcoming collection) deals in a realistic way with another totalitarian
family: the two abandoned daughters decide that their missing mother is a
slut because that's what their father decrees she is.  There's no questioning
father's authority until the next generation come along (in the form of the
story narrator, who neither likes her grandfather nor trusts the family's
brainwashing lies around what a terrific, wonderful guy grandfather was.  I
like the way JCO demonstrates how very difficult it is to challenge family
myth/lies and attempt to dig for the truth about what actually happened and
how the family adapted to accomodate a ruthless bully like the father in
"Faithless" actually is.  Cyrano



From: composer2@juno.com
To: jco@usfca.edu
Date: Wed, 29 Oct 1997 03:25:36 -0500
Subject: Jennifer: ZOMBIE

I couldn't agree with you more about ZOMBIE, Jennifer.  Her most
terrifying work to date.

DAVID



Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 18:58:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Jennifer: ZOMBIE

david,

it actually frightened me reading zombie because there i was completely in
the head of the insane. thats what i love the most about jco, the

manipulation of the reader, the way she shows how the craziest things can
be justified. that kind of manipulation, when done as gracefully as she
does it, is truly amazing.

- jen

"...why do we hurtle ourselves through every inch of time and space..."
-- the indigo girls

On Wed, 29 Oct 1997 composer2@juno.com wrote:

> I couldn't agree with you more about ZOMBIE, Jennifer.  Her most
> terrifying work to date.
> 
> DAVID
> 



To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: ZOMBIE thoughts & poetry
From: composer2@juno.com (David C. Chaudoir)
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 1997 20:39:04 EST

Jen (et al)

...and picture reading ZOMBIE on a cold, November night, by yourself -- I
finished it in a mere hour and a half, and after shutting it tight, I
wanted to peek back at some of the instances to confrim what it was I had
actually read!  Yikes.  That's what made it so frightening, was that she
was inside his head.
     As far as those types of thrillers go, I have read Stephen Dobyns'
THE CHURCH OF DEAD GIRLS, which was hyped earlier this year.  We are
talking mega-scary there, too.  Dobyns is an excellent writer, of course
he is primarily a poet and the beauty of his sentence structure reflects
that.  Amazingly, he is an excellent plotter too.  His work in the
mystery genre may have fine-tuned that, as he has said in the past.  I am
a big Dobyns fan.
     Who has read James Dickey's poetry?  He has a poem, "The Twin
Falls," that particularly hits home with me.  His collection from
Wesleyan University Press, "The Whole Motion," is a must for true
poet-lovers.  
     As far as poetry and JCO are concerned, I do not think she is God's
gift to poetry, as she is to the novel and short story (and, perhaps,
drama).  I bought TENDERNESS in hardcover last year, and did not fully
appreciate it until hearing Oates herself read from it at a recent
lecture and explain a bit.  She reads her poetry well; but for the common
folk who don't get to hear JCO, I don't think it's exceptional.  Any
thoughts?  What kind of backlash will I get from this...

DAVID



Date:  Tue, 28 Oct 1997 23:53:44 -0500 (EST)
 From: Jennifer Nash jnash@fas.harvard.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: ZOMBIE thoughts & poetry

David,

JCO's poem "Flirtation, july 1953" (i think i got the title right) blew me
away when i read it in the new yorker.... but i think thats because it was
so prose oriented that it seemed really strong.

zombie on a cold november night is amazing. 

anyway, i'll make my plea again - i took a break from the list when i
moved into school but in august i was talking to someone about the
connection between bellefleurs and 100 yrs of solitude so if you are that
person or know that person, i'd love to explore that with you again.

anyway, i am off to study for my art history midterm....

happy reading, everyone

- jen

"...why do we hurtle ourselves through every inch of time and space..."
-- the indigo girls



Date:  Thu, 30 Oct 1997 08:38:00 -0500 (EST)
From:  Heather L Ormiston hormisto@mission.mvnc.edu
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  You Must remember this

        Hi, I've been reading for awhile, but I am finally writing in. I
just finished reading You Must Remember This last night and I was
wondering what any of you thought of it. I am writing a paper connecting
Toni Morrison and Oates through their use of sexual violence. Would love
to hear any and all!
Heather Ormiston



From:   Cyranomish@aol.com
 Date:   Thu, 30 Oct 1997 11:43:22 -0500 (EST)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: underworld

Hi, John, How's UNDERWORLD coming?  I saw a review in the New Republic which
voices some of my own discontents with the novel.  You other Oates-watchers
out there:
is JCO friends with Don DeLillo?  In WHITE NOISE, the college professor-hero
has a
witty, elusive collegue named Winnie Richards who may be JCO in a cameo role.
 Cyrano



To:  jco@usfca.edu
Date:  Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:30:57 -0800
Subject:   Re: underworld
 From:  cambre@juno.com (JOHN CAMBRE)

Well, I'm up to about pg 125, I think; I'm at the part where the
protagonist has just taken his wife on the balloon trip and he's sitting
up early in the morning fondling the baseball. 'Have to admit I didn't
really care for the extended dialogue section where he and his wife are
talking past each other. It didn't seem like anything meaningful about
their relationship was really illuminated there. As far as the characters
are concenred, Klara came into focus quite readily, but Nick is still
rather opaque. But it's interesting enough to keep me going. 

As far as JCO and DeLillo being personally acquainted, I haven't the
faintest, but it doesn't seem unlikely; they both live in the east, and
probably circulate in the same publishing world. But this is strictly
conjecture. From what I understand, DeLillo, while not reclusive, doesn't
eagerly embrace a public life.

Since I'm new to this list, I'm curious to know: has there been any
discussion about the differences in form between JCOs novels and her
short stories? I've mostly read her short works, with the exception of 
"What I Lived For", and found this vastly different that what I was
familiar with. 



Date:  Thu, 30 Oct 1997 09:49:02 -0800
 From:  Randy Souther Randy Souther
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  oates interview on the radio

An interview with Oates is scheduled to be broadcast tonight at
10:30pm (pacific time) on KUSF 90.3 FM in the San Francisco Bay
area. KUSF also broadcasts over the web. Check out this link to
find out how to listen in if you're not in the Bay Area.

http://www.usfca.edu/kusf/netcasting.html

Randy



Date:  Fri, 31 Oct 1997 08:29:19 +0000
From:  "F. Schwartz" fabela@gte.net
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: underworld

Earlier this week, I asked if anyone has done an in-depth comparison
between ZOMBIE (New Yorker version) and the hardcover, which followed,
and which in my opinion, was not as intense, especially in the
"coloring" of the protagonist...

Comments?

Francie



From: Cyranomish 
 Date:   Fri, 31 Oct 1997 11:12:53 EST
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: underworld

Hi, John,  I haven't seen any discussion yet that contrasts JCO's short story
techniques with her novel techniques.  From my own reading, I would say that
she often works up ideas in short stories which may be treated differently in
the novels.  When I teach THEM, I like to offer the class her story "Archways"
from the collection UPON THE SWEEPING FLOOD.  It's about a college professor
who cheers himself out of a funk by having an affair with a depressed co-ed
who somewhat resembles Maureen in THEM.
The affair ends differently in "Archways" than it does in THEM, but both
stories deal with student-professor romances, something I'm sure JCO has seen
and/or heard plenty about during her long teaching career. Cyrano



From: composer2@juno.com
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Date:   Sat, 1 Nov 1997 00:30:43 -0500
Subject:  Academic Writers & Halloween!

All university writers, that is, good popular authors, inevitably end up
writing something about or relating to the collegiate setting, and it
appears throughout their work, either blatantly or shaded in allegory. 
This is especially true of JCO -- I mean, ZOMBIE, THEM, and a host of
others center in some way around a college campus.  Other writers
"guilty" of this are: Stuart Dybek (Western Michigan U); Reynolds Price
(Duke); Stephen Dobyns (Syracuse); Pinckney Benedict (Princeton; Hope);
Jane Smiley (Iowa); to name just a few.  These are all writers who teach
AND make a career of writing.  I thought this was an interesting
observation, sparked by Cyrano's mention of student/professor relations.

Warm regards for a "Happy Halloween"--
DAVID

p.s. -  How many people will costume themselves as the serial monster
from ZOMBIE this season?  Or do we all already wear that mask??? 
Oooo......

Maintained by Randy Souther
Last updated 11-1-97
Send comments and suggestions to Randy Souther