Date: Sat, 16 Aug 97 09:40:38 EDT
From:  Mark Sutton MSUTTON@VM.SC.EDU
Subject:  Paper session on Oates
To:  Joyce Carol Oates Mailing List JCO@usfca.edu

I'm trying to put together a paper session on Oates's horror fiction for the
nineteenth annual International Conference on the Fantastic in the Arts.  The
conference dates are March 18-22, 1998.  I'm using a very elastic definition of
horror, from the supernatural gothicism of Bellefleur to the psychotic serial
killer of Zombie.  If you're interested email me as soon as possible .  Thanks.

Mark Sutton



Date: Sun, 17 Aug 1997 10:14:23 -0700
From:  Randy Souther Randy Souther
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  The Gothic Series

Since there has been a fair amount of
discussion of the Gothic Series on this
list, I thought I would let everyone know
that I have made a page for the Series
which includes, among other things, an
excerpt from each of the unpublished
books in the series, THE CROSSWICKS
HORROR, and MY HEART LAID
BARE.

http://storm.usfca.edu/~southerr/genre.html

Randy



From:  Elektra200@aol.com
Date:  Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:05:35 -0400 (EDT)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re:JCO

Hi guys....

I just got back from an amazing vacation and I read Black Water and
Bellefluer. I have a question about Bellefluer - did anyone besides me find
it very un-JCO. It reminded me a lot of 100 Years of Solitude.

Any comments.
Jen



Date: Tue, 19 Aug 97 19:43:08 EDT
 From:  Mark Sutton 
 Subject:   Re: Re:JCO
 To:  Joyce Carol Oates Mailing List jco@usfca.edu

It was different.  For me, it was the structure;  that book just sprawls all
over time.  I enjoyed reading it, but I would have been lost without the family
tree.  I liked the way the supernatural was essentially an accepted part of
the world.  The first time the Dolan character (I think that's the right name)
changed into a dog was presented so matter-of-factly that I had to reread to
make sure I was seeing things correctly.

Just out of curiosity and ignorance, why did you say it was similar to 100
years of solitude?  (I'm not familiar with it outside of the name).

A few thoughts,

Mark Sutton



From:  Elektra200@aol.com
 Date:  Tue, 19 Aug 1997 20:11:45 -0400 (EDT)
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: JCO


In a message dated 97-08-19 19:49:49 EDT, you write:

<< Just out of curiosity and ignorance, why did you say it was similar to 100
 years of solitude?  (I'm not familiar with it outside of the name). >>

100 Years of Solitude is the beautiful, wonderful Garcia Marquez novel which
is full of amazing memorable magical realism scenes, travels in time through
the history of a family, and lyrical sensitive writing. That's what it
reminded me of.



From:  "Erin Staniszeski" spaz92@hotmail.com
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Date:  Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:12:39 PDT

Hello everyone!
I just joined this discussion group today...
I am a big fan of Joyce Carol Oates. I read Where Are You Going, Where 
Have You Been in a college english class and I haven't been able to get 
enough since.  :)
I read novel after novel. I LOVE THEM ALL!
Does anyone know if it is possible to get a copy of Smooth Talk, the 
movie based on Where Are You Going...?

:)  :)

Erin



Date: Tue, 19 Aug 1997 17:15:46 -0700
To:  jco@usfca.edu
From: Nikki Senecal 
Subject:   Re: Re:JCO

>  that book just sprawls all
>over time.  I enjoyed reading it, but I would have been lost without the
>family
>tree.  I liked the way the supernatural was essentially an accepted part of
>the world.   I had to reread to
>make sure I was seeing things correctly.
>

Having read _100 Yrs of Solitude_ but not _Bellefluer_, I'd say that
description above applies to my reading of the Marquez.  No people turning
into dogs, but some characters lived to be well over 100.  Other magical
things happened, but the last time I read the book I was in college (almost
10 years ago), and I have little recollection of them.  I seem to remember
butterflies . . .

Nikki



From:  ccaddick@capcollege.bc.ca
Date:   Wed, 20 Aug 1997 00:23:59 -0700
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re:

Hi Erin!

I rented Smooth Talk from a video store for an English assignment. You
shouldn't have a problem finding it. Just so you're warned, it was BAD. It
was very different from the story "Where Are You Going..."

Have fun, it's worth a laugh!

Carol



Date: Wed, 20 Aug 1997 02:03:57 +0000
From:  Francie Schwartz fabela@gte.net
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re:

Good Heavens! Smooth Talk is, in this writer's (and Oates aficianado)
opinion, quite excellent and stands on its own as a piece of
filmmaking.  It captures almost too perfectly the scary sexuality that
jco has depicted in so many of her works, from the young person's point
of view especially.

A film is by definition very different from a short story or a novel. 
If your assignment was for an undergrad English class, one hopes that
the professor has instilled in you a respect for the translation from
one medium to another...

Compared to Foxfire (apparently an awful movie which i haven't seen),
Smooth Talk is pantheon material!  Think of the Ernest Hemingway short
stories that have been translated into good if not great movies.

i've been a jco reader and admirer since i was in high school and read
'them'. i'm a lot older - don't hold this against me - and i understand
it's difficult to teach the subtleties of the process that goes on
between story and script, but didn't your prof tell you anything about
this?  Writing for real time performance is necessarily radically
different from short story writing.

sorry if the above seems cranky, but when i read the posts of so many
who are students of jco by assignment, i just had to stick my writer's
point of view in here!

Francie



Date: Wed, 20 Aug 97 11:56:40 PDT
From: Nikole Senecal senecal@scf-fs.usc.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re:

In addition to Francie's post about the translation from short story to film.
you may want to consult JCO's article in the NYT "When Characters on the Page
are Made Flesh on the Screen."  (Sorry, I'm not in my office and do not have
access to the reference, and the title may be off, it's from memory.)  In it,
JCO discusses the necessity of her changing the story to make an abstract
ending into a more visual product.

Nikki Senecal



From:  KMMANWAR@library.syr.edu
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Date:   Wed, 20 Aug 1997 15:18:45 EDT
Subject:  citation

In addition to Francie's post about the translation from short story to film.
you may want to consult JCO's article in the NYT "When Characters on the Page
are Made Flesh on the Screen."  (Sorry, I'm not in my office and do not have
access to the reference, and the title may be off, it's from memory.)  In it,
JCO discusses the necessity of her changing the story to make an abstract
ending into a more visual product.

Nikki Senecal
------------------
"When Characters from the Page Are Made Flesh on the Screen" appeared 
in the NYT on March 23, 1986.

Kathleen Manwaring
Syracuse University Library



Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 00:34:09 -0400 (EDT)
From:  "Matthew A. Cheney" mac5519@is.NYU.EDU
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: citation

On Wed, 20 Aug 1997 KMMANWAR@library.syr.edu wrote:

> In addition to Francie's post about the translation from short story to film.
> you may want to consult JCO's article in the NYT "When Characters on the Page
> are Made Flesh on the Screen."  (Sorry, I'm not in my office and do not have
> access to the reference, and the title may be off, it's from memory.)  In it,
> JCO discusses the necessity of her changing the story to make an abstract
> ending into a more visual product.
> 
> Nikki Senecal
> ------------------
> "When Characters from the Page Are Made Flesh on the Screen" appeared 
> in the NYT on March 23, 1986.
> 
> Kathleen Manwaring
> Syracuse University Library
> 

The article is reprinted in Oates's collection of essays, (WOMAN) WRITER
(Dutton, 1988) as "'Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been': Short Story
Into Film".  If my memory is correct, there's also some info on the webb
site.

Matt Cheney



From:  Cyranomish@aol.com
Date:  Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:14:59 -0400 (EDT)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: citation

When you're able, would you give us the exact citation for that article about
novel-into-film?  It sounds quite intriguing, and I want to look it up next
time I'm at my local library.--Cyrano



Date: Thu, 21 Aug 97 08:33:35 EDT
 From:  Mark Sutton MSUTTON@VM.SC.EDU
Subject:  Paper session on Oates--Correction
To:  Joyce Carol Oates discussion list JCO@usfca.edu

When I sent out the previous call, I neglected to put down where to send
abstracts.  Here's the corrected call:

I'm trying to put together a paper session on Oates's horror fiction for the
Nineteenth Annual International Conference on the Fantastic in the Arts.  The
conference dates are March 18-22.

Submit 250 word abstracts or papers 2000-2500 words long to:
Tony Magistrale
University of Vermont
Dept. of English
Burlington, VT  05405-4030

Abstracts or papers are due by October 1, 1997.  If you have any other
questions contact me at msutton@vm.sc.edu.

Thank you for your time,

Mark Sutton



From:  Elektra200@aol.com
Date:  Thu, 21 Aug 1997 14:48:34 -0400 (EDT)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  In Case you haven't read it


Hey All....

I have a folder called "Cool Things" where I cut out things I like from
magazines etc. and about a year ago I cut this JCO poem out of the New
Yorker. I'm not sure how many of you have read it, but I figured it was worth
posting in case you havent seen it.

Flirtation, July, 1953

Driving north a day and a half from Pensacola, Florida.
My father young, flat-bellied, impatient behind the wheel.
Now in his civvies, khaki shorts and T-shirt.
My mother and five-month baby brother in the back seat of the Chevy.
Long hours of driving, windows rolled down to casacades of bright steamy air.
Now it's night but still warm, humid as an exhaled breath.
A bone-blind moon in the sky hurting my eyes.
In Kentucky, at the edge of a nameless town, an Esso station and a cafe.
Moths 
        swirling crazy in the light, thick as snowflakes.
My mother has taken the baby into the women's rest room to change his soaked 
        diaper.
My father is in the cafe drinking milk, three, four tall brimming glasses of
cold milk,
        he's still in training.
(Though he lost the big title fight, light-heavyweight division U.S. Army,
last week.
        We weren't allowed to attend, he'd saud we'd jinx him but that's
another story.)
It's the smell of gasoline that wakes me.
And the garage attendant squirting liquid onto the windshield.
Then with a soiled rag he rubs away the splattered insects in rough erratic
circles
        leaving an oily-iridescent gleam.
Heavy muscular guy about my father's age, maybe younger.
A face deep-stained like a football. Black sideburns curling onto his cheeks.
Droopy
         eyed.
He slides into the driver's seat stinking of sweat, grease, gasoline, he's
testing the
         windshield wipers, then the turn signals.
Impressed with the Chevy, a 1952 model. How's on of these hold on the road?
he            
         asks.
Wearing a dirt-stiffened Esso uniform, on top a metal-studded leather vest,
and his
         biceps are bunchy as an adult woman's breasts, and tattooed.
Gripping the steering wheel like he's driving in my father's place.
Saying words I can't understand at first, it's the nasal-drawl sweet-Southern
accent
         I'd almost think was put on to make me laugh. And I do laugh,
shivery breathy
         giggle.
Poking me, a forefinger in the collarbone, Sleepyhead?
Asking me, Where you folks goin'?
I tell him Buffalo.
Buf'lo--what?
Buffalo, New York.
You comin' from Flor'da?
I tell him yes, now my daddy's discharged from the U.S. Army where he was a
                 
         corporal and now going home.
He been in the war? K'rea?
Yes, I say. My voice is proud. Didn't get wounded either.
I'm twelve years old. A thin girl, flat-chested, bony wrists he could circle
with his
         thumb and forefinger.
Tiny grit-hard pimples across my forehead beneath my bangs stinging like red
             
         pepper.
My brown hair is pulled back into a greasy ponytail, secured by a rubber band
my 
         mother's deft fingers twisted.
I'm in wrinkled shorts, pullover terrycloath blouse, rubber-thong sandals out
of a bin
        at Woolworth's.
I'm sweaty, too, so I keep my fuzzy underarms shut tight.
He's saying, leaning close, You're cute hon, how old are you? - and I'm
staring with
        this grin, frozen scared.
He's saying in this low-drawling voice he wouldn't want anybody to overhear
which   
        there isn't, Hey y'know? - hon? - you got one of them flying roaches
on you -
        brushing the front of my blouse, gently, the back of his oil-smerared
hand-
         five inch roach, the kind that bites. Uh-oh!
But it's only a joke, he's laughing.
Front seat of the Chevy rocking with his laughing.

That was the first. You never forget your first.



Date: Thu, 21 Aug 1997 16:49:23 -0400 (EDT)
From: Richard Ressmyer ressmyrr@wvlc.wvnet.edu
Subject: Re: In Case you haven't read it
To: jco@usfca.edu

I believe this poem is included in Tenderness; I will check when I get 
back to my home shelf.

Richard
in Charleston, WV

PS When JCO was here on April 19 and 20, 1997, she read from Tenderness, 
but not this particular piece.



From: Elektra200@aol.com
 Date:  Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:05:15 -0400 (EDT)
 To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  I'm an Idiot

Ok....I'm a moron -- someone sent something with the subject Re:In Case You
Haven't Read it in response to the poem I posted.....and I accidentaly
deleted it when deleting my daily pile of unsolicited e-mail.....so..can
someone send it to me again.

Thanks



From: JonWendell@webtv.net (John Eggers)
Date:Tue, 26 Aug 1997 20:22:40 -0500
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   Man Crazy

I just bought "Man Crazy" at Waldenbooks 
tonight.  I wondered if anyone else has seen
it.  The release date on "Celestial Timepiece"
and at Amazon.com is September 8th.  Cover
art is quite like Mulvaneys, however it is smaller
in size like "Zombie"   It looks pretty intense.
Maybe we could start a book discussion of this
new novel on the list  
All for now



Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 00:40:32 -0400
 From:   "Thomas A. Hulslander" t-hulslander@top.monad.net
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: Man Crazy

John Eggers wrote:
> 
> I just bought "Man Crazy" at Waldenbooks
> tonight.  I wondered if anyone else has seen
> it.  The release date on "Celestial Timepiece"
> and at Amazon.com is September 8th.  Cover
> art is quite like Mulvaneys, however it is smaller
> in size like "Zombie"   It looks pretty intense.
> Maybe we could start a book discussion of this
> new novel on the list
> All for now

I am trying to get my hands on a copy-if all else fails, I will order
from amazon.com!  
Krista



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date:  Wed, 27 Aug 1997 09:48:52 -0400 (EDT)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: Man Crazy

I got my review copy of Man Crazy last weekend, and will start reading it
Thursday.  Would be delighted to start discussion asap. Cyrano.



Date: Wed, 27 Aug 97 08:25:10 CST
 From:   "Frank Malgesini" 
To:  jco@usfca.edu

I have been reading this discussion group when I have access to a computer 
since April but this is my first message. Joyce Carol Oates has been my 
favorite author since the early seventies. I think no other writer has 
described the way the human mind works, at least in our time, as well as 
Oates. After reading something by Oates, stories by other writers seem 
like...well, stories. I first bought them in 1970 but I didn`t finish it. A 
short time later I bought her amazing collection of stories The Wheel of 
Love. After that I finished them and have since read everything I could 
find by her. I have twenty three novels, eleven collections of short 
stories, three of essays and three of poetry. I`ve liked all her writing 
but my favorite was her short stories until I read Bellefleur.

Since 1976, I have lived in Mexico and have not been able to keep track of 
what she is writing. In recent years I`ve been able to visit the US once 
every one or two years and I always manage to bring something new by Oates 
back with me but until I got access to Internet last spring and found this 
site I had never had a complete list of her publications. Until this spring 
I hadn`t heard of Rosamond Smith or any of the novels published under that 
name.

In the short story class that I teach at the university, I use three Oates 
stories: The Death of Mrs Sheer, The Brain of Dr. Vicente, and 
Convalescing. I think that each of these stories sums up central themes of 
her work, but, like many of her stories, they are especially useful for 
class because they are fun to read and discuss.

I am sending this note because this afternoon I read the comment about One 
Hundred Years of Solitude from Jen. In 1982 I proposed a comparison of 
these two books as a topic for my masters thesis. I changed the thesis 
because there was no faculty member to supervise the topic. Earlier this 
year, however, I came across some old notes and began working on the book 
again. The title is Separate Solitudes: Bellefleur and Buendia. I think 
that Bellefleur is One Hundred Years of Solitude written from within the 
traditions, culture and fantasies of North America rather than Hispanic 
America. Another way to describe it might be to say that it is a version of 
the Great American Novel.

Frank Malgesini 
Facultad de Filosofia y Letras
Universidad Autonoma de Chihuahua



From: Elektra200@aol.com
Date:  Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:53:46 -0400 (EDT)
 To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Response

Frank,
In a message dated 97-08-27 10:27:26 EDT, you write:

<< I am sending this note because this afternoon I read the comment about One

 Hundred Years of Solitude from Jen. In 1982 I proposed a comparison of 
 these two books as a topic for my masters thesis. I changed the thesis 
 because there was no faculty member to supervise the topic. Earlier this 
 year, however, I came across some old notes and began working on the book 
 again. The title is Separate Solitudes: Bellefleur and Buendia. I think 
 that Bellefleur is One Hundred Years of Solitude written from within the 
 traditions, culture and fantasies of North America rather than Hispanic 
 America. Another way to describe it might be to say that it is a version of 
 the Great American Novel.
  >>

Wow. I am so glad you sent this note. I think the comparison is so accurate -
the moment I started reading I saw the connection between the two novels. In
so many ways, Bellefleur resembles Cien Anos de Soledad - the magical realism
of Oates is so similar to the magical realism of Marquez. Especially the
opening scene where (Im remembering here....might be inaccurate) Mahaleel
comes and transforms from an ugly creature to a beautiful feline. I would
love to hear more about what you're working on, so feel free to email me
anytime (before sept 5th - after sept 5th, my email address will change)
Also - teh fact that you are living in Mexico -- have you ever read a book
called Stones for Ibarra (by harriet doerr) I think you might enjoy it. Check
it out and let me know.

For everyone - this group has been pretty quiet lately. Is everyone still
alive?
Jen



 From:  Doozer411@aol.com
Date:  Wed, 27 Aug 1997 17:26:11 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: Man Crazy

Hey everyone- why has this discussion list been so quiet lately?  Welcome
back everyone!



 From:  ZXpert@aol.com
 Date: Wed, 27 Aug 1997 21:11:02 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Okay, So I'm A Goof, I Guess!

Hi To All The Joyce Carol Oates fans out there!

One quick question: In the short story, "Where Are You Going, Where Have You
Been?, what are the significance of the numbers "33, 19, & 17?" Satanic?
 Road numbers?  Addresses?  Clue me in!

Curious

Pete Gutierrez



Date: Thu, 28 Aug 1997 01:28:20 -0700
From:  Tom & Sandy Fasano tomchat@gte.net
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Okay, So I'm A Goof, I Guess!

The numbers add up to 69.



From: LoriLamb@aol.com
Date: Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:15:49 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Okay, So I'm A Goof, I Guess!


The only thing that I have been able to come up with is that these numbers
add up to 69.  (I wondered about this myself, and this spring I just added
the numbers up.)  This is fitting in reference to the juvenille, yet scarily
sexual, nature of Arnold Friend.  If you are really interested in finding out
more about "Where Are You Going" you might want to check out the collection
of essays on the story in "Where Are You Going, Where Have You Been?" Ed.
 Elaine Showalter.  It contains the story itself, an intro by Showalter, and
essays on the story and the film adaptation.  Good reading!



Date: Sat, 30 Aug 1997 21:11:03 -0700
From:  Randy Souther Randy Souther
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Reviews

There's a short, mixed review of Black Water
in the August Opera News, and a horrible
review of Man Crazy in the Aug 29 NYT.

I look forward to a discussion of the book
here in the near future.

Randy



From: Cyranomish@aol.com
Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 19:37:11 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Reviews

I read Man Crazy yesterday.  It got a mild slam here in the Boston Sunday
Globe -- at
the end of the review.  I had already read several chapters in various
magazines this past year.  "See You in Your Dreams" remains, in my opinion,
the most compelling chapter.  The material on airplanes -- flying in small
crafts around New York state -- was of interest.  Oates's father flew a
little plane for fun and occasionally took her along for rides.  Isn't it
striking how she waited so long to use that material?  I can't think of any
other piece she's written that deals with small aircraft, and I've read just
about everything
she's written.  I wonder if she deliberately deploys these areas of her own
life over her writing career.  As soon as I got the novel last Friday, I did
an odd thing I usually don't do: I turned to the last pages -- not to see how
it ended -- but to find out what images were used to tie up the novel.  I was
very moved by Ingrid's reflections on the toppled trees that keep on growing
despite their ruined condition.  The Globe reviewer, Gail Caldwell, seemed to
take issue with Ingrid's fate (I won't go into it yet, not to "spoil" the
ending for those who are still reading.)  At first I saw what Caldwell meant;
later, in the light of "Man Crazy's" mother/daughter theme, I thought
Ingrid's plans for her future made 
perfect sense-- whether they represented a good, "happy" ending for her or
just more self-delusion, is up in the air -- as I think many of Oates's
conclusions leave us somewhat up in the air. Cyrano
 

Maintained by Randy Souther
Last updated 8-30-97
Send comments and suggestions to Randy Souther