Date: Tue, 10 Jun 1997 21:33:58 -0800
 From:   Randy Souther 
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Query . . .

I'm passing this on to the group--perhaps you'll have
better luck with it.


> 
> The New York Sunday Times double-crostic puzzle solution is the following
>  quote "Coined by Joyce Carol Oates from surfeit and vertigo surfeitigo
> appears in Jack Hitts   in a word defined as a sudden sense of being stuffed
> to the gills by food, drink, friends, parties, invitations and so on ad
> nauseam." I have searched through your Joyce Carol Oates web pages but find
> no referance to Jack Hitts. Is this the title of one of her writings? If
> not, do you know what it refers to? 

-- 
Randy Souther
Randy Souther
http://storm.usfca.edu/~southerr/personal.html



Date: Mon, 16 Jun 1997 13:01:04 +1030
                             From:  John Foyster foyster@ntmrc.ncver.edu.au
                          SubjectRe: Query . . .
                                To:   jco@usfca.edu

Randy Souther wrote:
> 
> I'm passing this on to the group--perhaps you'll have
> better luck with it.
> 
> >
> > The New York Sunday Times double-crostic puzzle solution is the following
> >  quote "Coined by Joyce Carol Oates from surfeit and vertigo surfeitigo
> > appears in Jack Hitts   in a word defined as a sudden sense of being stuffed
> > to the gills by food, drink, friends, parties, invitations and so on ad
> > nauseam."

While it is clear that a phrase was dropped from the quote somewhere
along the line, I cannot identify the article or book by the writer Jack
Hitt in which the "surfeitigo" coinage is reported. But perhaps someone
on the list is better placed to follow this trail than I am.
John Foyster
Adelaide
South Australia



Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:02:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Karen Gaffney kgaffney@odin.english.udel.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: hay is for horses oates is for me

hi everybody. i hope my subject isn't too long-it'll look pretty silly if 
it gets cut off. anyway, i just wanted to say how excited i am to have 
come across this discussion group yesterday. i've been reading through 
all the archived messages. i've been quite intigued by the discussion, 
especially by the comments on oates's lectures and by greg johnson's 
inside scoop. i just finished my first year of grad school in english at 
the univ of delaware. even though i didn't work on oates this past year, 
i definitely want to pursue work on her. i actually did my undergrad 
senior thesis on her and worked with joanne creighton, who's done 2 books 
on jco. so that was really exciting. i'm mostly interested in her novels,  
particularly the trilogy as well as unholy loves,  solstice and marya 
since they deal with issues of female creativity and the general idea of 
balancing the conscious and the unconscious. but i also loved foxfire, 
mulvaneys, 1st love,them, and snake eyes and you cant catch me. her whole 
pseudonymous (sp?) thing is really fascinating. i'm eager to read the new 
one. i think those 2 rosamond smith novels are extremely provocative. i 
was less entranced by nemesis and soulmate. i havent read lives of twins. 
i wonder what compels her to continue to write under r.s. when she knows 
that everyone knows it's her.if i'm not mistaken, she tried to publish 
her first rs novel without even her editor knowing but that fell through 
and her editor found out and was quite upset. i wonder how much she feels 
she is taking on another persona when she writes those novels. how 
different is it than taking on the persona of the foxfire narrator versus 
that of a narrator from haunted? i dont know how answerable these ?s are, 
but they seem interesting. don't worry if no one else is interestd in 
discussing this, i wont be offended :)
once again, i just want to say how excited i am to have this forum to 
share thoughts on jco. she's by far my favorite writer. it bothers me 
that she seems undervalued and underappreciated. i dont really understand 
that. people criticize her for writing too much rather than considering 
it the sign of a genius. 
i noticed other grad school students in the discussion--what kind of 
encouragement have you had by your departments in working on her?
oh, by the way, i did go to phili to see black water. not knowing 
anything about opera, i dont feel qualified at all to comment on it. but 
i do want to say that i certainly enjoyed it. the woman who played kelly 
was really perfect. the first half focused primarily on the party scene, 
with the senator and kelly meeting, and the second half focused on the 
drowning scene. i'm afraid i dont have anything very insightful to say 
about it, not knowing the genre at all. i love reading jco's writing so much 
that i do hesitate about encoutering jco in other formats, particularly 
film. they were selling copies of the libretto that jco wrote for the 
opera. i dont know if any libraries would have picked it up. at the show, 
it was only $3, and it has some interesting prefatory comments by oates. 
if anyone is interested, i can certainly look through it and refresh my 
memory and come up with something intelligent to say.

sorry i've been so long-winded. i hope it hasnt been too boring.

thanks.
karen gaffney



Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 10:29:49 +0000
From: Francie Schwartz fabela@gte.net
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: hay is for horses oates is for me

Karen Gaffney wrote:
> 
> hi everybody. i hope my subject isn't too long-it'll look pretty silly if
> it gets cut off. anyway, i just wanted to say how excited i am to have
> come across this discussion group yesterday. i've been reading through
> all the archived messages. i've been quite intigued by the discussion,
> especially by the comments on oates's lectures and by greg johnson's
> inside scoop. i just finished my first year of grad school in english at
> the univ of delaware. even though i didn't work on oates this past year,
> i definitely want to pursue work on her. i actually did my undergrad
> senior thesis on her and worked with joanne creighton, who's done 2 books
> on jco. so that was really exciting. i'm mostly interested in her novels,
> particularly the trilogy as well as unholy loves,  solstice and marya
> since they deal with issues of female creativity and the general idea of
> balancing the conscious and the unconscious. but i also loved foxfire,
> mulvaneys, 1st love,them, and snake eyes and you cant catch me. her whole
> pseudonymous (sp?) thing is really fascinating. i'm eager to read the new
> one. i think those 2 rosamond smith novels are extremely provocative. i
> was less entranced by nemesis and soulmate. i havent read lives of twins.
> i wonder what compels her to continue to write under r.s. when she knows
> that everyone knows it's her.if i'm not mistaken, she tried to publish
> her first rs novel without even her editor knowing but that fell through
> and her editor found out and was quite upset. i wonder how much she feels
> she is taking on another persona when she writes those novels. how
> different is it than taking on the persona of the foxfire narrator versus
> that of a narrator from haunted? i dont know how answerable these ?s are,
> but they seem interesting. don't worry if no one else is interestd in
> discussing this, i wont be offended :)
> once again, i just want to say how excited i am to have this forum to
> share thoughts on jco. she's by far my favorite writer. it bothers me
> that she seems undervalued and underappreciated. i dont really understand
> that. people criticize her for writing too much rather than considering
> it the sign of a genius.
> i noticed other grad school students in the discussion--what kind of
> encouragement have you had by your departments in working on her?
> oh, by the way, i did go to phili to see black water. not knowing
> anything about opera, i dont feel qualified at all to comment on it. but
> i do want to say that i certainly enjoyed it. the woman who played 

Please, more details!  Please describe the music, the scenery the 
effects during the drowning scene, I want MORE!  Black Water is one of 
my favorites!  Also American Appetites and Mulvaneys... I'm a writer 
who has been greatly influenced by jco, as a woman and independent 
thinker.

I think i understand why she wrote under the rs nom de plume.  She 
wanted to see if the publishers would take her work on its own merits 
and not her track record, her academic credentials, etc etc.
I will eventually write under another name, too.  Also it gives one 
license to "start over", always an enlightening and educational 
experience.  

kelly



Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 16:05:09 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew A. Cheney" mac5519@is.NYU.EDU
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: hay is for horses oates is for me

The RS pseudonym motivation(s) could be similar to those Stephen King has
expressed about Richard Bachman: there's a lot of baggage that goes along
with an established name, and sometimes it's fun to see what happens if
you get a new suitcase.

Matt Cheney



From: RJohn713@aol.com
Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 17:52:35 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: hay is for horses oates is for me


I think Matt is exactly right.  "RS" allows JCO to be someone else, and to
pursue her characteristic themes in a more concept-oriented way, and through
the prism of a specific, otherwise delimiting genre.

Greg Johnson



Date: Tue, 17 Jun 1997 21:43:57 -0400 (EDT)
From:Karen Gaffney kgaffney@odin.english.udel.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   rosamond smith


hi. i agree with what you're all saying about jco's reasons for using rs. 
and i think it's really fascinating that she does this. it raises 
interesting questions about identity and authorship. it reminds me of 
the jco & i essay she wrote after borges & i. i do get concerned that 
critics and academics dont take her rs novels very seriously because the 
genre isnt taken as seriously as realistic fiction.and i think some of 
her rs novels (snake eyes and you cant catch me) should be taken just as 
seriously as her other top stuff. both of those explore major issues of 
gender, creativity, identity, the unconscious/conscious dualism, and all 
that. i guess the difference between these rs works and some of her other 
jco work is not always obvious to me, particularly in thinking about 
bellfleur, bloodsmoor and mysteries and haunted stories. 
i am very curious what her thought 
process is when a rs story occurs to her and when a jco idea occurs to 
her. are these 2 writing personas separate in her mind? or is the 
question of who is the author come later? i can certainly see the 
advantage of testing out your work under a different name in order to 
observe the reaction. but if everyone knows that rs is jco then how does 
that change things for her? 
i'm certainly not criticizing her for still using rs. i think its really 
intriguing and adds yet another provocative dimension to her work, 
particularly since i'm so interested in the creative process.

i just bought double delight and i'm eager to read it and discuss it if 
anyone else is reading it.
thanks karen



Date: Thu, 19 Jun 97 09:13:14 EDT
 From: Mark Sutton 
Subject: Re: hay is for horses oates is for me
To: Joyce Carol Oates Discussion List jco@usfca.edu

On Tue, 17 Jun 1997 12:02:33 -0400 (EDT) Karen Gaffney said:
>i noticed other grad school students in the discussion--what kind of
>encouragement have you had by your departments in working on her?
Fairly good.  I'm just starting a master's thesis on a few of her recent short
fiction collections (Haunted, Heat, and Demon).  I don't think her work's
showed up in a graduate class lately but I know of a couple of grad students
who teach her short fiction in composition classes (I'm planning to teach
Where are you going, Where have you been? next fall).

I think another thing that bothers some academics with Oates is that she's so
hard to classify.  She's written in almost every form, well (IMHO), and in
almost every mode (Gothic fiction, postmodern, lyric poetry, literary criticism
just to list a few off the top of my head).  Pigeonholing her is next to
impossible.

Mark Sutton



Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 11:25:55 -0400 (EDT)
From:  Richard Ressmyer ressmyrr@wvlc.wvnet.edu
Subject:  Russell Banks Inview
To: discussion list jco 

Dear JCO Discussants:

You may find of interest the following two sites--interview in two parts 
by Pickney Benedict of Russell Banks.

JCO is mentioned, Banks work is discussed, and the writers relationship 
to society and university explored.

http://www.bombsite.com/banksint.html
http://www.bombsite.com/bankint2.html

Benedict studied with Oates and Banks in Princeton's BFA program and now 
teaches at Holland, MI.  He is the author of a collection of short 
stories--TOWN SMOKES.

Richard
Charleston, WV



From:  RJohn713@aol.com
 Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 13:41:22 -0400 (EDT)
 To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:   Re: hay is for horses oates is for me

When I was in grad school, way back in the 70s, I approached my adviser about
doing my M.A. thesis on Oates.  He said cautiously that she was "important
enough," but didn't know if anyone in the department would be qualified to
direct the thesis.  As it turns out, no one was.  I wrote the thesis (and
ultimately, my Ph.D. dissertation and first book) on Emily Dickinson instead.

Twenty years later, grad students have it easier because there is now a large
body of Oates criticism (and many completed dissertations) to draw on;
although the number of people qualified to direct such a project is probably
still quite low, for the reason Mark mentions.  How many professors, even
those whose specialty is women's lit or contemporary American lit, have read
even half of JCO's books?  I often encounter people who say they are "a huge
fan" of JCO, but when pressed they seem to have read only three or four
titles.

Greg Johnson



From: diamond@math.wvu.edu (Harvey Diamond)
Subject: hello
To: jco@usfca.edu
Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 17:14:04 -0400 (EDT)

As a recent subscriber to the JCO discussion list, I thought I'd say 
a quick hello to the group. I am a math professor at West Virginia
University and I've been reading JCO since the late '70's (although I
haven't been able to keep up with her later works - just What I Lived For
and Foxfire in the last few years). I particularly enjoyed her short 
story collections from the '70's and several of the novels, although
I seemed to find that at novel length her style required a bit of slogging
at times to get through sections.

I noticed that the discussions have been pleasant, airy, 
with academic/scholarly questions/issues, and information on JCO herself. 
Nothing  intense really. But doesn't her writing have a grip on us all -
maybe so that it's difficult to articulate? I know it does on me. She has 
created an intense, interior, psychologically charged world that always
begins just the slightest bit shifted from our own and which then follows,
slowly but accelerating, its own inevitable Oatesian path. Her styles
and venues may change, but it is a consistent world and its truths
(very human, and sometimes dark) are very real. Bits and pieces of
her writing and perceptions are always popping out in everyday life
and I have found years after reading something that I could not understand
in her stories, occasions arise in life which bring those stories back,
with more comprehension, and great appreciation.

Here's just a few favorites that come to me:

"Things once said in marriage cannot be unsaid." 
(From American Appetites I think). There it is! Short, ominous, wise, 
oh-so-carefully crafted, and its truth gives you the shivers!  Love
means never having to say you're sorry - because you can't!

"The more you see of the world, the more enemies you discover."
(From Foxfire.)
Not just a turning around here of the trite sayings about all the friends
you have yet to find in the world. There is a deep truth here about 
people in conflict, about those whose interests
naturally and inevitably and unfortunately conflict with our own and 
which renders us - yes - enemies; and there is also the message that
there may be people in the world who hate you already, without knowing
you, maybe on ethnic, or religious, or economic grounds. All of this,
along with the good things that we all share, you will also discover as
you move through the world. And see how the sentence is crafted - it begins
with a trite predictable phrase and you prepare yourself for something
banal (although, reading JCO, you know otherwise!) Then you are hit with
the word "enemies" and are disoriented; and then you are finished off with
the masterful choice of the word "discover". It is the perfect word and
gives the statement its truth and depth. This also has quite a personal 
meaning for me - I was department interim chair from 1992-96. I was always
friendly & polite with everyone and stayed out of department fights and
tried to be fair and so they picked me to be chair while we searched for
a "real" chair. And how many enemies I "discovered"! 

Well, that's enough I suppose for a "short hello"! I look forward to
more discussions and using the very beautiful and informative web site.

Harvey Diamond
 


Date: Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:28:56 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Matthew A. Cheney" mac5519@is.NYU.EDU
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Prolificity

On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 RJohn713@aol.com wrote:

>^ How many professors, even
> those whose specialty is women's lit or contemporary American lit, have read
> even half of JCO's books?  I often encounter people who say they are "a huge
> fan" of JCO, but when pressed they seem to have read only three or four
> titles.
> 
> Greg Johnson
> 

That makes me curious: what have folks on this list read of Oates?  A few
months ago, when talking about genres and sub-genres, people mentioned
their favorite types of JCO's writing, but beyond that how much have we
read?  I'll admit that I've got a shelf of twenty of her books, mostly
from the '80s and '90s, but that for the most part I've concentrated on
her short fiction because that's what I've had time for.  Of the novels,
I've only done MARYA and BLACK WATER, though with any luck this summer
I'll get a chance to catch up on some of the others.  Oh, and I read most
of Greg's book on her short fiction, which I wholeheartedly recommend to
anyone who is, as I was, looking for a guide through that apparent jungle.

So what've you read?

--Matt Cheney



Subject:  Oates
Date: Fri, 20 Jun 97 11:09:25 -0000
From:t-hulslander t-hulslander@top.monad.net
To: jco@usfca.edu

Regarding what I've read of Oates' work-I think I have read all the short 
story collections and most of the novels.  The only things I have not 
read are the Rosamond Smith books.  I prefer her short story 
collections-I am very impressed by how she can make such an impact in 
short works.  After reading Oates' short stories, I am often left feeling 
dissapointed after  reading someone else's work.  Especially my own!
My favorite novels include THEM, We Were The Mulvaneys.  The Wheel of 
Love, Goddess and Other Stories and A Sentimental Education are short 
story collections I have read again and again.
Now that I am married and raising a family, I am not as up to date on her 
work as I would like to be-but I try!
Krista

 


Date:  Fri, 20 Jun 97 09:20:22 EDT
From:  Mark Sutton 
Subject:Re: Prolificity
To:  Joyce Carol Oates Discussion List 


On Thu, 19 Jun 1997 22:28:56 -0400 (EDT) Matthew A. Cheney said:
>
>That makes me curious: what have folks on this list read of Oates?  A few
I've read most of her short fiction, because that's where my research interests
lean (and the time thing :) )  As far as novels, I've read Expensive People,
Garden. . ., Wonderland, Zombie (just finished), and I'm hoping to start
Black Water within the week.

                                                       Oh, and I read most
>of Greg's book on her short fiction, which I wholeheartedly recommend to
>anyone who is, as I was, looking for a guide through that apparent jungle.
I second this recommendation.

Mark Sutton



From: diamond@math.wvu.edu (Harvey Diamond)
Subject: writing style
To: jco@usfca.edu
Date:  Fri, 20 Jun 1997 13:42:48 -0400 (EDT)

for JCO scholars/academics & others:

        JCO obviously has a very distinctive writing style (and
here I'm thinking of her short stories and novels from the 70's but
it seems pretty invariant from what I've read of her more recent work).
How would you characterize that style or, what aspects of her style
can be distinguished? I think modern research includes looking for
themes, concepts or even words that reappear often, perhaps aided by
computer. For example, I'm just browsing through the first few
pages of "Do with me what you will" and I easily recognize her "style".
for example:

        commenting "this is why we live!" or "this is what we live for"
(exactly what varies from story to story but there is always something!)

        characteristic words: surprise, greedy, triumphant, pleasure

        concepts: that idea of "surprise" is all over the place. In just
a few pages of "Do with me what you will" we have:

p. 9: It was not often that his strength was required, but when it 
was, he was always surprised, pleased.
p. 10 There were so many surprises in life!
p. 11 "Surprise, Elena, a birthday surprise - a few months late, I 
know - but anyway   "
        "What do you say Elena? Are you surprised? Is it a nice 
surprise?"

And of course, characters are continuing being "surprised" by the
appearance of blood. (It's a very astute choice. One's first
inclination is to say "shocked" or "horrified" but in fact it is,
most accurately, a surprise.)

        Has anybody done any computer studies to investigate these matters?
"Literary computing" is the rage in our English Department here; the
chair is apparently quite active in the field. Is there a database of
JCO's works available for such investigations?

Harvey



From: NASPhD@aol.com
Date:  Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:27:47 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Oates reception/grad school

In a message dated 97-06-19 16:40:43 EDT, you write:

<< >i noticed other grad school students in the discussion--what kind of
 >encouragement have you had by your departments in working on her? >>

My director is trying to get me to focus on just Oates instead of working on
Oates, Atwood and Morrison.  He has directed other Oates dissertations but
his specialty is 19th C American fiction.  He is currently working on an
Encyclopedia of Violence.  My diss is on women's violence, as some may
remember.  He has taught _Heat_ and _Because It is Bitter and Because It is
my Heart_, but few others teach contemporary fiction, let alone Oates.  Other
members of my committee think that I should keep all three so I don't "limit"
myself as an Oates scholar (but I think they would say that about working on
any one figure).

Nikki Senecal
University of Southern California



From:  NASPhD@aol.com
Date:  Fri, 20 Jun 1997 19:27:48 -0400 (EDT)
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:Re: Prolificity

In a message dated 97-06-20 02:58:40 EDT, Matt asks:

<< That makes me curious: what have folks on this list read of Oates? >>

Mysteries of Winterthurn
Heat
Marya
Because It is Bitter and Because it Is My Heart
Do With Me What You Will
Foxfire
Zombie

(Now you see why I can't let my diss director talk me into an all-Oates diss.
 In my defense, I have been able to keep up with Atwood and Morrison.)

Currently, I am working on _them_ which is central to one of my chapters but
I can't get through it.  I've read an awful lot *about* it but I'm finding it
difficult, to say the least.  

Nikki



Date: Fri, 20 Jun 1997 21:28:19 -0800
From: Randy Souther Randy Souther
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject: grad school/what've you read/RS


Grad School

I had something of a difficult time in starting an MA thesis on Oates. I
found one person who was not only qualified but also interested in
directing my thesis, but alas, he was unavailable at that time. I ended
up approaching everyone whose areas of specialization even came close. I
approached one person whose areas were African-American Lit and
Contemporary Women's Lit.--she fixed me with a cold stare and said "you
don't want *me*". I took her at her word. More leisurely in expressing
this same point was the person I finally ended up with, who said that he
would do it if no-one else would. At our first official meeting, he said
the first thing I needed to do was to look up his review of Mysteries of
Winterthurn (one of the books I would work on). Of course I did so, only
to find the most mean-spirited "review" I had ever read. At our next
meeting I said nothing about it, so he finally asked if I had found the
review. With what I hoped was a completely blank/bored expression, I
said: "uh-huh." There was a pause. And then he moved on. Later he
suggested that I write to Oates, and I told him that I already had--that
she had written back that there were a number of people writing on her
work and that she couldn't respond to individual questions. (In fact
Oates's letter was very personable and positive, but I didn't feel it
necessary to try to express these qualities to him). He burst out, "The
Bitch!!"  But it was the *way* he said it, as though we were part of the
same club, and that surely I was in complete agreement with his
assessment. Well, having never been a joiner of clubs, nor feeling
particularly agreeable at that time in my life, I somehow managed to
fail to attend any further meetings of that particular club. 


What have I read?

It's interesting how people's reading seems to gravitate to either the
stories or the novels. I guess I'm more a novel person. I first read
Oates in 1987--MARYA. And then YOU MUST REMEMBER THIS. From that point
forward I've read all of her books. From that point backward, I've read
all but three of her novels. Of course, my intention is to eventually
read everything, but somehow at this point I don't want to rush to that
goal. 

RS

Speaking of Rosamond Smith, I just finished the new book--DOUBLE
DELIGHT. Wow!  That one is definitely my favorite of the series. The
last fifty pages or so just had me gasping at the revelations.
Krista--you said you have read most everything except RS--don't deny
yourself the pleasure! 

 
Randy Souther
Randy Souther
http://storm.usfca.edu/~southerr/personal.html



Date:  Sun, 22 Jun 1997 12:02:33 -0400 (EDT)
From: Karen Gaffney kgaffney@odin.english.udel.edu
To: jco discussion group jco@usfca.edu
Subject: books & opera

hi. in response to the question about what we've read, i've focused on 
jco's novels. i love her short stories, but i do prefer something longer 
that i can really get into. so i've read: them, expensive people, 
wonderland, do with me what you will, childwold, unhoy loves, bellfleur, 
angel of light, bloodsmoor, mysteris of winterthurn, solstice, marya, you 
must remember this, american appetities, because it is bitter, black 
water, i lock mydoor upon myself, the rise of life on earth, zombie, 
foxfire, what i lived for, we were the mulvaneys, first love. also some 
essays in (woman) writer and the profane art. and the short story 
collections of haunted, where is here, the assignation. oh, and her rosamond 
smith novels: soulmate, nemesis, snake eyes, you cant catch me and double 
delight. i second randy's recommendation of the latter. though i wouldnt 
place it as my favorite of her rs novels (i'd say snake eyes and you cant 
catch me had more to them), its definitely a terrific read. i have to say 
i did get a kick out of the nj setting. living in central nj all my life 
(except for college), it's neat to see her refer to familiar places such 
as mercer mall (which does indeed ahve a bird store) and quakerbridge. 
though her town of queenston is i believe fictitious, perhaps she 
adapted it from kingston, a town in the area. 

in response to francie's request for more info on her opera, i'll try and 
describe it in more detail. i'm looking at the libretto now to remind 
myself since its been several months. i thought the set was pretty good. 
the very front of it had a line of tall grassy weeds you'd see near the 
beach. so it was like the audience was the ocean, if that makes any 
sense. and then there was a phone booth way off to the side meant to be 
the one the senator uses to call his friend to say he's been in an 
accident. then there was a thin screen you could see through which 
divided the front of the stage from the back. it was down only sometimes, 
during the scenes when there were 2 different things going on at the same 
time but not in the same place. then during the scenes showing kelly 
trapped in the car, they used a large cylindrical cage. there was at one 
point a real car dangling from the top of the stage to represent the 
accident, but no one was ever in it. 

the whole thing was pretty chronological, except the very beginning was 
the drowning, and then it 
cut to the 4th of july party, and then the drowning was repeated in the 
2nd act. so it opened with the sound of a car crashing, and the chorus 
(who later play the party goers) singing a few lines which get repeated 
throughout the opera. i hope i'm not violating any copyright laws if i 
quote them here:
"You're an American girl; you love your life.
You're an American girl; you believe you have chosen it.
You're an American girl; you will live forever.
As the black water filled her lungs, and she died....."

And then Kelly sings/screams for help and the Senator makes his phone 
call telling his friend that it was kelly's fault that they crashed. he 
also tells his friend that she's dead even though she isnt yet.  

the music itself is kind of jarring, but not in a bad way. i think its 
meant to have that unsettled aura. 

then we go to the party, and kelly and her friends are eagerly 
anticipating the senator's arrival. he finally comes and kelly is quite 
taken with him, as he is with her. there's a tennis match and a barbeque 
and throughout kelly gets more and more interested in the senator. the 
first act ends with them dancing together. the 2nd act opens with 
everyone asking the senator and kelly why they're leaving so soon. no one 

thinks they should go. but kelly is determinend and radiant with 
excitement. then we see kelly and the senator in a car, and they're 
swaying back and forth to show his erratic driving. there's a chorus in 
the background warning kelly not to anger him by suggesting that they may 
be lost. then the lights go out, kelly screams. then we see the senator 
and kelly inside that cage i mentioned before, meant to represent the car 
underwater. he gets out as she begs him to help her. the singing goes 
back and forth between kelly, the senator and the chorus. at first the 
chorus sings that he'll be back to rescue her, then as her cries become 
more urgent, and movements within the cage become more agonized, the 
chorus blames kelly-she should not have said they were lost. then 2 of 
kelly's friends from the party come on stage and sing about kelly's 
"adventure" and how shy she is. then kelly's singing abruptly changes 
after her friends appear (even though she cant see them, of course) and 
she sings about having met the senator and how he offered her a job, then 
the chorus echoes her words.then we hear kelly's parents singing, just 
their voices. and the chorus starts singing the repeated "and the black 
water filled her lungs, and she died." kelly's singing becomes quite 
desperate. then we hear the phone conversation the senator makes again. 
and then the chorus sings those lines i quoted at the beginning. kelly 
collapses at the bottom of the cage. and that's the end. 

i hope i havent reduced it too much. i'm sure my description wouldnt 
satisfy any avid opera-goers since i know nothing about music. but i hope 
it can at least give you a better sense of what went on. 
overall, i think the performance was quite good. sometimes the singing at 
the party seemed a little silly, but it was important just to juxtapose 
the trivialities of the party with the seriousness of the accident. one 
thing that jco said in a preface to the libretto is that the novel didnt 
give voice to the senator, but the opera sort of had to, just because of 
the genre. and it was interesting because the senator wasn't a terrible 
character; he liked kelly for her intellect and her enthusiasm 
about politics, not just for her looks.
some people i know didnt really like the cage that was used. it certainly 
didnt look like a car, but i can appreciate  its symbolism. 

i've probably babbled on quite enough here. i hope this makes sense and 
that it hasnt been too reductive or boring.
:) karen



Subject: Re: grad school/what've you read/RS
Date: Sun, 22 Jun 97 22:13:33 -0000
From: t-hulslander t-hulslander@top.monad.net
To: jco@usfca.edu

Randy-Reading RS novels is on my summer "to do" list!  That, and study 
Dylan Thomas' work.
I know I'll be busy!
Krista



From: RJohn713@aol.com
Date:Mon, 23 Jun 1997 09:37:19 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Rosamond Smith

I must be out of the loop where Rosamond's novels are concerned.  My
favorites are NEMESIS (maybe because it's based on a real-life literary
scandal I read about in NEW YORK magazine) and SOUL-MATE, while my least
favorites are the more recent YOU CAN'T CATCH ME and DOUBLE DELIGHT.  I found
YCCM just too "thin" and  too self-consciously arch in the telling; in DD, I
never believed in the protagonist's infatuation with the young woman, which
seemed "stated" rather than convincingly dramatized.  And I found her
relatives a bit cartoonish and unbelievable.  What am I missing?

Greg J.



Date: Mon, 23 Jun 1997 07:41:14 -0800
From: Randy Souther Randy Souther
To:  jco@usfca.edu
 Subject: Re: Rosamond Smith

RJohn713@aol.com wrote:
> 
> I must be out of the loop where Rosamond's novels are concerned.  My
> favorites are NEMESIS (maybe because it's based on a real-life literary
> scandal I read about in NEW YORK magazine) and SOUL-MATE, while my least
> favorites are the more recent YOU CAN'T CATCH ME and DOUBLE DELIGHT.  I found
> YCCM just too "thin" and  too self-consciously arch in the telling; in DD, I
> never believed in the protagonist's infatuation with the young woman, which
> seemed "stated" rather than convincingly dramatized.  And I found her
> relatives a bit cartoonish and unbelievable.  What am I missing?
> 
> Greg J.


How interesting! Because my previous favorite, before DD--which you do
not particularly appreciate--was Nemesis, and then Soul/Mate. But then
someone earlier mentioned that they didn't care for Nemesis. And I would
place last probably You Can't Catch Me, and then Snake Eyes.

I guess I didn't question Terence's infatuation with Ava-Rose, perhaps
because I felt rather infatuated with her myself. And I guess her family
is rather cartoonish, but I think I know some similarly cartoonish
people, so they never struck me as being necessarily unreal. 

I was particularly delighted with the plotting, and I guess I would say
the same of Nemesis.

I wonder what others think of the RS novels?


-- 
Randy Souther
Randy Souther
http://storm.usfca.edu/~southerr/personal.html



Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 08:07:50 -0500 (CDT) 
From: ANDREA WRIGHT AWRIGHT@GAMMA.IS.TCU.EDU
Subject:Teaching Oates
 To:  jco@usfca.edu

Has anyone taught an Oates novel in an American lit course, or any other course
for that matter?  If so, which one(s)?  How successful was the experience? 
What approaches did you take?  I am teaching an American Lit from 1900 course
in the fall and am trying to compile a syllabus.  I am also working on my
dissertation, which includes at least two chapters on Oates. 
But writing about the novels of Oates is different from actually teaching
one of them to lower-division undergrads who are probably not English
majors, and I'm not sure which novel to select.  I have only
taught one short story by Oates, the ubiquitous "Where Are you
Going...?" and would like to teach a novel.  I am thinking about _Black Water_, 
_You Must Remember This_, _Because It Is Bitter..._, or _Marya._  I love  all
of her novels and would enjoy teaching just about any one of them, but I would
like feedback from people who have taught her novels, or perhaps were in a
class where a novel was taught, or who have any creative ideas for me.  
Thanks.

Andrea Wright



From: RJohn713@aol.com
Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 14:40:14 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: Teaching Oates

I would recommend a couple of older novels--THEM, or WONDERLAND.  To my mind,
these are still JCO's finest achievements and I have taught both with great
success.  There is also much more critical material on these books, which is
helpful to students.  For recent novels, all they have are reviews, which
usually aren't too helpful.

Greg Johnson



Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 06:27:31 +0000
From: Francie Schwartz fabela@gte.net
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: Teaching Oates

ANDREA WRIGHT wrote:
> 
> Has anyone taught an Oates novel in an American lit course, or any other course
> for that matter?  If so, which one(s)?  How successful was the experience?
> What approaches did you take?  I am teaching an American Lit from 1900 course
> in the fall and am trying to compile a syllabus.  I am also working on my
> dissertation, which includes at least two chapters on Oates.
> But writing about the novels of Oates is different from actually teaching
> one of them to lower-division undergrads who are probably not English
> majors, and I'm not sure which novel to select.  I have only
> taught one short story by Oates, the ubiquitous "Where Are you
> Going...?" and would like to teach a novel.  I am thinking about _Black Water_,
> _You Must Remember This_, _Because It Is Bitter..._, or _Marya._  I love  all
> of her novels and would enjoy teaching just about any one of them, but I would
> like feedback from people who have taught her novels, or perhaps were in a
> class where a novel was taught, or who have any creative ideas for me.
> Thanks.
> 
> Andrea Wright

Dear Andrea, depending on how many sessions are utilized to teach the 
book, i would creatively suggest teaching BLACK WATER, for several 
reasons.  It recently opened as a new opera, and one hopes, will make 
it all the way to Broadway.  For its sexual politics, its transcendent 
surrealism, and its timeliness (how America saw Chappaquiddick back 
then, how she sees it in retro-vision) and lastly, for its brevity.

Students can digest it, and it may stimulate the females to imagine 
the kind of skills it takes to write the thoughts of a fictional Mary 
Jo Kopechne...

Just my creative thoughts this morning.  I've taught only art history 
(German Expressionism) but seems to me there are many many female 
students interested in the gender role issues Oates addresses....

Francie Schwartz
(author)



Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:56:04 -0700
From: AuroraFell "dawnfell@concentric.net"@concentric.net
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: What You've Read


After being slightly intimidated by the academic tone of some of the 
discussions here (I'm just a low-brow rock music critic), I finally feel 
confident to join in on this subject, because I've read every single one 
of JCO's novels except for "A Bloodsmoor Romance."  I'm saving it for 
the next time I get the flu. I've read several of her novels while 
feverish and find it somehow appropriate.  In wilder days, I even read 
"Expensive People" cover to cover while on acid, though I wouldn't 
necessarily recommend that to the squeamish.

My favorites are her long, meandering, obsessive novels like 
"Wonderland," "Son of the Morning," and "Them."  On the opposite end of 
the spectrum I also liked "Zombie" quite a bit.  Of the RS novels I've 
read "Snake Eyes" and "You Can't Catch Me."

Randy, just out of curiosity, which are the three you haven't read?

--Dawn



Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:58:18 -0400
To: jco@usfca.edu
From: cafuller@EVE.ASSUMPTION.EDU (Catherine Fuller)
Subject: Miss Oates in Boston, 6/20/97


        Friday, June 20, 1997 with JOYCE CAROL OATES at the Boston Center
for Adult Education in Boston was an evening of magic.  The "mansion" where
the reading took place, in a rococco-gilt and mirrored salon, is located in
a ritzy, residential area of Boston, next door to the French Consulate.
The neighborhood around the Boston Public Gardens with its swan boats,
flower beds, and and an elephant-sized statue of Paul Revere is a deceiving
one.  By daylight it is a tourist's delight, but the sunset here is tinted
with more than the approaching dark.  At dusk the night people begin to
emerge.  The Poe plaque marking the location of a theater alley where Eliza
Poe lived and performed and baby Eddie first discerned shapes, maybe, seems
like a perfect signpost.  Can you think of a better venue for a talk by
Joyce Carol Oates?

        Ms. Oates, en route from Philadelphia, was stranded due to
consecutively cancelled flights and finally arrived at about 9:15, clearly
exhausted.  She went on to to give a spirited reading, full of airport
humor.  Ms. Oates the comic is as good as any live or t.v. stand-up.  In a
relaxed and familiar delivery, she did a perfect "funny thing happened on
the way to Boston" routine.  She played the audience, had them in her hand,
throughout the program.  Everyone seemed delighted, despite a 2 1/2-hour
delay and the cancellation of a planned reception with the author.

        Joyce Carol Oates read the well known, two couple/Chinese
restaurant story from "The Assignation" collection.  She also read from
MAN-CRAZY, her new novel due out in the fall, chronicling the exploits of
"Dog-Girl", on the prowl for new girls in a ring of narcotics,
prostitution, and Satanist characters.  The book sounds chilling and I
can't wait until fall!  Kittens' mews are the ruse that the drug-crazed
Dog-Girl uses to trap a new victim, until her conscience surfaces and she
allows an escape.  With MAN-CRAZY, our own mistress of the grotesque
promises her readers some tricks, and more importantly, she promises them
another work of compassion and love, the true Oates trademarks.

        Ms. Oates highlighted her presentation with remarks about the value
of writing independent segments within a novel.  Sherwood Anderson was
mentioned here, and Winesburg, Ohio was given as a good example of the
technique.  Ms Oates emphasized the benefits of the short story as a
stand-alone piece or as a starting point.  The starting point in the
creative process can be a vision; images may rise from the horizon of a
writer's thoughts, like dreams.  The writer should "play the self",
according to Ms. Oates, and take for a setting any dream into which she
might walk and immediately begin her part.  Narratives may be conceived as
separate units, according to the author.  Ms. Oates spoke of the "psychic
risk" inherent in writing, especially when attempting a long novel.   (All
writing may present this danger, Ms. Oates pointed out.  Sylvia Plath let
the creative currents of her poetry carry her out too far, and they
contributed to her self-destruction.)

        Writing the novel can be like taking a bold plunge into unknown
waters, according to Ms. Oates, with the bank on the other side of the
river visible at the beginning of the crossing.  The river's currents may
help or hinder writer/swimmer to reach the other side, but that shore will
never be the one imagined before the plunge.  The author spoke of the
endless possibilities in writing of cultivating independent units in terms
of events, plot, and time.  Time can move in very interesting ways across
the fictional landscape, she emphasized.  Reference was made to James
Joyce's progression in his revisions of Dubliners over the years, and to
his grand progress, to Ulysses.

        Joyce Carol Oates answered a few questions:

        1)  "Why do you write?"
        A rich and sinuous Oatesian reply followed, with more literary
references.  Her concluding pronouncement was that "creativity is a
mystery".

        2)  "How do you draw your characters so effectively?"
        Again, the answer from the creative imagination.  Ms. Oates
mentioned the common element of the criminal and the fictional imagination:
FANTASY.  To illustrate this idea, Ms. Oates brought up serial
murderer/cannibal, Jeffrey Dahmer, who was allegedly observed in fugue
states at family functions!  Fantasy was alive here, Ms. Oates said.  In
the creative process of fiction, the result is the story.

        3)  My question to Ms. Oates:  "Is Rosamund Smith here to stay?"
        Her response was an entertaining history of the R.S.
author-persona; how R.S. came about basically as an attempt at baggage-free
authorship (loose from  social/political concerns as well as from the
constraints of an established reputation).  Here Ms. Oates included a few
R.S. publisher/reviewer anecdotes.  Of course, our favorite author did not
really answer the question!  This was to my own "double delight":  a.
Rosamund Smith may be alive and well, and planning future books.  Hope
somebody snaps up the film rights to Ava-Rose!  b.  How perfect!  Of course
Joyce Carol Oates did not answer this question!  Legerdemain/then the wand,
or watch/then WAIT AND SEE!

        Joyce Carol Oates created an evening of her very own magic in
Boston.  Thanks to Randy Souther and the Celestial Timepiece's internet
calendar of Joyce Carol Oates appearances, I was lucky enough to be there,
to watch as the author flipped the hour-glass and cast her spell under a
handkerchief of stars, crescents, and hearts.  PRESTO!



Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:14:45 -0800
From: Randy Souther 
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re:What You've Read

> 
> After being slightly intimidated by the academic tone of some of the
> discussions here (I'm just a low-brow rock music critic), 

I seem to recall reading JCO, somewhere, noting  (and I am paraphrasing)
that there are no second-rate genres, only second-rate practitioners.
So--as long as you're a *good* rock music critic--long live Rock 'n'
Roll!

> 
> Randy, just out of curiosity, which are the three you haven't read?
> 

I made a mistake--there's four:

With Shuddering Fall
A Garden of Earthly Delights
The Assassins
Cybele

Nothing against those books; I just haven't gotten to them yet.

-- 
Randy Souther
Randy Souther
http://storm.usfca.edu/~southerr/personal.html



From: RJohn713@aol.com
 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:05:36 -0400 (EDT)
 To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: What You've Read
 
Dear Dawn,

You're my kind of Oates reader  [  :)  ] and, I suspect, JCO's as well.

Greg



From: JonWendell@webtv.net (John Eggers)
Date:Thu, 26 Jun 1997 12:17:36 -0500
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: What You've Read

  I've read all but 4 of JCO novels (Cybele,
Unholy Loves, Cybele, A Garden of Earthly
Dellights) and haved loved most of them.
   Strongly recommend her genre series
Bellefleur, Bloodsmoor Romance, Mysteries
of Winterthurn- I wish  the series would 
continue.  Also am a big fan of The Assassins.
I think she took a risk with this novel.  It
is an exploration of subjectivity/reality that
covers alot of territory.  Has anyone else
read The Assassins?  Also, Brenda Daly's
book ,  Lavish Self-Divisions ,  is worth
reading if interested in JCO novels.



Date:  Thu, 26 Jun 1997 10:38:24 -0800
From: Randy Souther Randy Souther
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:Zombie

I recently got some e-mail from someone who was expressing his belief
that Freud and Thomas Szasz "did much to harm literature, literary
criticism, as well as his patients and society in general."  This was
related to the fact that ZOMBIE had a blurb written by Peter Kramer
(author of Listening to Prozac).

While I didn't feel qualified to comment on this person's opinion, I
did, upon reading this, recall my reaction on first seeing a copy of
ZOMBIE with that blurb. And I admit I was rather put-off by it. Did
anyone else have this reaction? Not that I have anything against Peter
Kramer--I don't know anything of him or his work--but it seemed as if
Dutton was trying to "legitimize" the book, telling the self-conscious
and delicate "literary" reader that this was not a horror novel, but a
psychological study. My first thought was: what's wrong with the book,
that the publisher thinks it needs such a blurb? After reading the
book--a good book--my thought was: what's wrong with Dutton? Because if
it hadn't been JCO, I probably would have left it in the bookstore after
reading that kind of blurb.
-- 
Randy Souther
Randy Souther
http://storm.usfca.edu/~southerr/personal.html



Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:11:16 +0000
From: Francie Schwartz fabela@gte.net
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: Zombie

Randy Souther wrote:
> 
> I recently got some e-mail from someone who was expressing his belief
> that Freud and Thomas Szasz "did much to harm literature, literary
> criticism, as well as his patients and society in general."  This was
> related to the fact that ZOMBIE had a blurb written by Peter Kramer
> (author of Listening to Prozac).
> 
> While I didn't feel qualified to comment on this person's opinion, I
> did, upon reading this, recall my reaction on first seeing a copy of
> ZOMBIE with that blurb. And I admit I was rather put-off by it. Did
> anyone else have this reaction? Not that I have anything against Peter
> Kramer--I don't know anything of him or his work--but it seemed as if
> Dutton was trying to "legitimize" the book, telling the self-conscious
> and delicate "literary" reader that this was not a horror novel, but a
> psychological study. My first thought was: what's wrong with the book,
> that the publisher thinks it needs such a blurb? After reading the
> book--a good book--my thought was: what's wrong with Dutton? Because if
> it hadn't been JCO, I probably would have left it in the bookstore after
> reading that kind of blurb.
> --
> Randy Souther
> Randy Souther
> http://storm.usfca.edu/~southerr/personal.html

Amen to that - the major publishing houses are deteriorating - or 
perhaps decerebrating!  Zombie needed no help - and i didn't see the 
thing Kramer wrote - I've read "Listening to Prozac" and it's 
brilliant - nothing to do with jco, tho... so what were the reviews of 
the BLACK WATER previews?  SOMEONE please!

Francie Schwartz



From: "BARTHEL,DONALD" 111527@OVMAIL.kodak.com
 To: jcousfcaedu jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:The Crosswicks Horror
 Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:28:34 -0400

 Randy, a recent e-mail stated that they wished JCO would continue with the    
genre series. I have written in the past about this and you mentioned the      
above novel; you said that it had been written, but I believe you stated that  
Dutton was not overly impressed with most of the genre series sales, so that   
when and if it will ever see our eyes is in question.                          
 My question: Do you think writing Dutton would help to get this published?    
 Thanks,                                                                       
 
Donald R. Barthel    



Date:  Thu, 26 Jun 1997 11:42:19 -0800
From: Randy Souther Randy Souther
 To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: The Crosswicks Horror

BARTHEL,DONALD wrote:

> 
>  Randy, a recent e-mail stated that they wished JCO would continue with the
> genre series. I have written in the past about this and you mentioned the
> above novel; you said that it had been written, but I believe you stated that
> Dutton was not overly impressed with most of the genre series sales, so that
> when and if it will ever see our eyes is in question.
>  My question: Do you think writing Dutton would help to get this published?
>  Thanks,
> 
> Donald R. Barthel

In fact, that information came from Greg Johnson. And writing to Dutton
certainly couldn't hurt.

Is it something about "genre" novels, or "series" novels--or both--that
make fans act as though they were addicted to drugs. Don't get me wrong,
I've got it bad myself: there's nothing I'd like to see more than THE
CROSSWICKS HORROR . . . . And then . . . etc.

-- 
Randy Souther
Randy Souther
http://storm.usfca.edu/~southerr/personal.html   



Date: Thu, 26 Jun 97 15:32:23 EDT
From:  Mark Sutton MSUTTON@VM.SC.EDU
Subject:Re: Zombie
To:  Joyce Carol Oates Mailing List jco@usfca.edu

I didn't have any reaction to the blurb, but then I'm a fan of horror fiction.
I think you probably hit the nail on the head with it being a way to tell
"literary" reader that this wasn't just a horror novel.  You have to wonder
what they thought of it wining the Bram Stoker Award.  :)

One weird thing about that is Oates has written "horror" before, both
psychological and monster-based.  _Haunted_ is almost completely horror stories
and _Demon and other Tales_ is overflowing with Lovecraftian imagery and tone.
_Night-Side_ and _Heat_ both had Gothic stories.

Part of the reason I like Oates is that she cannot be pigeonholed;  she's done
most of the styles of writing and does all of them (or at least the one's I've
read) well.

Re:  Crosswick's Horror.  I wonder if she'd have better luck publishing it
elsewhere.  Necronomicon Press published _Demon. . ._   If it is a reflection
on 19th century horror they might be interested.

Just some ramblings :)

mark Sutton     



Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 14:50:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kristin Muck muck4008@ginko.ait.fredonia.edu
To: joyce carol oates discussion list jco@usfca.edu
Subject: reading, teaching, and more


In response to the question what have people read:

I was introduced to JCO this past year in a graduate course which focused 
on contemporary women poets who have written in different genres.  In
addition to THE FABULOUS BEASTS we read RISE OF LIFE ON EARTH and I LOCK
MY DOOR UPON MYSELF.  This was enough to hook me on JCO and I soon read
FOXFIRE, which I decided to incorporate into my Englich Comp. class.
BECAUSE IT IS BITTER and FIRST LOVE are the other titles I've read so far.

Teaching:

The students (mostly freshmen) in my comp class loved FOXFIRE.  It
provided so much dicsussion material, from issues relating to adolescence,
family, friendship, etc., to social class, sexual violence and more.  I'm
looking forward to using it again in the fall.


I'm eager to read more JCO and am particularly interested in her
writing that deals with adolescent women.  Where might you recommend      
I go from here?  Are there some good secondary sources that focus on
JCO and female adolescence?  There are SO many titles to choose from!

Thanks!

Kristin  



From: JonWendell@webtv.net (John Eggers)
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 17:33:25 -0500
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: reading, teaching, and more

 Novels by JCO that deal with female adolescence, at least in part,
could include
Marya: A Life, Angel of Light  and You Must
Remember This.  An excellent short story
is "How I Contemplated the World from the
Detroit House of Correction and Began My
Life Over Again"   There are numerous other
short stories that deal with this theme.   



From: RJohn713@aol.com
Date: Thu, 26 Jun 1997 22:34:49 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:  Re: The Crosswicks Horror

I do think it's unlikely that CROSSWICKS HORROR will ever be published, at
least by Dutton.  The third volume of the series, MYSTERIES OF WINTERTHURN,
sold only a few thousand copies in hardcover, about the same as an average
first novel.  You could write to Dutton if you wanted, though I'm not sure
you'd get a response, since the editors there are extremely busy (Rosemary
Ahern, Senior Editor, Dutton, 375 Hudson Street, NY  10014).  You'd be more
likely to get a response by writing directly to JCO herself % Ontario Review
Press, 9 Honey Brook Dr., Princeton NJ  08540 (enclose SASE or self-addressed
postcard).  Though she's kinda busy, too.

A couple of years ago, there was some talk of publishing not CROSSWICKS but
rather the fifth volume of the quintet, 'MY HEART LAID BARE' (probably with a
different title).  But since JCO keeps writing at least one "realistic" novel
per year, the kind of book that is much easier to sell, there is no real
motive for Dutton to bring out the remaining two Gothic novels, since there
are also the books of short stories, the Smith novels, etc.  

I can report, at least, that the next volume of JCO's short stories will be
another collection of "grotesque" tales (in the same vein as HAUNTED).
 Probably to be called DEATH MOTHER & Other Stories, and probably to appear
next spring or summer.  This might help satisfy those Gothic cravings, at
least somewhat....

Greg Johnson       



Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 10:18:49 -0400 (EDT)
From: Karen Gaffney kgaffney@odin.english.udel.edu
To: jco discussion group jco@usfca.edu
Subject: opera


>so what were the reviews of
>the BLACK WATER previews?  SOMEONE please!
>Francie Schwartz

Francie- i sent a message last week about my impression of the opera. the 
first part of the message was a response to the what have you read 
question, and after that was the opera part.
i dont know if you were looking for more info or if you just didnt get 
the message. it's fine if you still want more, quite understandable since 
i'm not an opera expert. but in case you hadnt read the 2nd part, i just 
wanted to let you know.
 :) karen            



From: JonWendell@webtv.net (John Eggers)
Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 12:46:05 -0500
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: The Crosswicks Horror

  I can understand Duttons reluctance because
of past sales.  However, wasn't "Bellefleur" by
JCO her best seller ever?  Also,  many of the
novels by "serious writer" in recent years have 
been gothic, post modern, or period novels.
The Waterworks-E L Doctorow
Mason & Dixon-  Pynchon
Athena- John Banville
Morality Play- Barry Unsworth
Anything by Patrick McGrath
The Alienest - Caleb Carr
Etc.,etc
 Maybe the time for the "Crosswicks Horror"
is Now! 
thanks Randy for the address for Dutton, I
am definetly going to write.    



Date: Fri, 27 Jun 1997 11:07:15 +0000
From: Francie Schwartz fabela@gte.net
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject: Re: opera

Karen Gaffney wrote:
> 
> >so what were the reviews of
> >the BLACK WATER previews?  SOMEONE please!
> >Francie Schwartz
> 
> Francie- i sent a message last week about my impression of the opera. the
> first part of the message was a response to the what have you read
> question, and after that was the opera part.
> i dont know if you were looking for more info or if you just didnt get
> the message. it's fine if you still want more, quite understandable since
> i'm not an opera expert. but in case you hadnt read the 2nd part, i just
> wanted to let you know.
>  :) karen

don't worry about whether you qualify as an opera critic... what did 
the local paper say?  Was it talked about?  Was it packed, and did 
everyone in the audience get transported to that car in the water at 
the end?  How was the end lit?  Was the music more like Sondheim or 
Rogers and Hammerstein or (shudder) Lloyd Weber?


Did it success in its attempt to move you, to see Chappaquiddick 
through Kopechne's eyes?

????

Thanks, Francie        



Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 10:13:16 -0400 (EDT)
From:  Karen Gaffney kgaffney@odin.english.udel.edu
To:  jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  re: opera

> don't worry about whether you qualify as an opera critic... what did 
> the local paper say?  Was it talked about?  Was it packed, and did 
> everyone in the audience get transported to that car in the water at 
> the end?  How was the end lit?  Was the music more like Sondheim or 
> Rogers and Hammerstein or (shudder) Lloyd Weber?
> 
> 
> Did it success in its attempt to move you, to see Chappaquiddick 
> through Kopechne's eyes?
> 
> ????
> 
> Thanks, Francie
> 

Hi. not living in phili, i didnt see any local reviews except one, in the 
philadelphia weekly. i think its a free arts/entertainment paper but i 
could be mistaken. the review was rather harsh--it said the opera wasn't 
powerful enough to make us care about the characters. i wouldn't have 
been that harsh at all, though i do understand what the reviewer means. 
there's no point during the opera where you feel a flood of emotions, or 
even a wave. you never feel like crying. you don't leave it feeling so 
overwhelmed that you can't talk for a few minutes. i assume opera has the 
potential to do this. i know musicals certainly do. but i certainly cared 
a lot about kelly. i don't have a good sense of the local reception of 
the opera but the small theater was only half full, maybe 2/3 at the 
most, on the friday night that i saw it. i didn't take that as a great 
sign considering there were only 9 performances in total.
i definitely felt that the whole drowning scene put you right into the 
mind of kelly. her struggle between hoping the senator would reutrn for 
her because he's a "good person" and her realization that he has deserted 
her. kelly's character was very three dimensional (unlike those of her 
friends). you could clearly see her passion and enthusiasm for life and 
for doing something that would make a difference.
during that final scene (f i'm remembering correctly) the chorus was on 
the left, in shadows. kelly was trapped in a large cylindrical cage on 
the right and there was direct lighting on her from above. the cage as 
car was a little hard to get used to. 
i would say that overall the audience was certainly attentive, but not 
"transported." but i dont know what would have transported everyone. i 
dont think its any one thing. i personally prefer music from musicals 
like sondeim's and i'm much more affected by that kind of music because 
it stays with you and the variations on a theme can be so effective. i 
dont know if the audience was primarily non-opera jco fans or opera buffs.
i really couldnt compare the music to anything i know. definitely not 
like sondeim or webber or rogers/hammerstein. you dont leave humming any 
tune. i dont think you 
could even if you tried. the music was kind of discordant (if that's a 
word) and harsh and jagged and not harmonious really. but it contributed 
to the harshness of what was going on on stage. the music was 
disconcerting, without nice resolves and all that.
you asked if it made me see the whole incident through her eyes. well 
frankly i've never seen it through any other. my first real exposure to 
the incident was reading black water. the incident occurred a few years 
before i was born so i have no sense of how it was treated. jco said in 
her preface that kelly didn't have much of the spotlight, so jco wanted 
to give her that. i would say she succeeded because you definitely feel 
you know kelly, and you understand why she wants to go with the senator.
she is a complete, whole chracter, while the others, senator included, 
are pretty flat. if someone wanted to get the fullest blac water 
experience, and they could either see the opera or read the book i woudl 
definitely tell them to read the book. the book is fuller and i have to 
say that the images created by the imagination are much more powerful 
than the ones created on that stage.
i hope all my rambling has answered your questions. 
:) karen        



From: RJohn713@aol.com
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 1997 11:49:18 -0400 (EDT)
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: opera

I have heard from JCO that the "most important" review of BLACK WATER will be
in the magazine OPERA NEWS, which I can't find here.  If anyone reads this
magazine, or has access to it, I would appreciate knowing the content of the
review.  I am at the copyediting stage of the biography, the last chance to
make any changes, and I would like to make note of significant reviews.
 Thanks--

Greg Johnson     



Subject: Re: Miss Oates in Boston, 6/20/97
Date: Sat, 28 Jun 97 23:10:23 -0400
From:t-hulslander t-hulslander@top.monad.net
To: jco@usfca.edu

Thanks for the details of JCO in Boston!  I saw the date on the Timepiece 
calender, too, and was in quite a state that night, knowing she was only 
two hours away from me, speaking! At least I got some good 
information/insight from your post!   



Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:38:16 -0400 (EDT)
From:  Karen Gaffney kgaffney@odin.english.udel.edu
To: jco@usfca.edu
Subject:  Re: opera

On Sat, 28 Jun 1997 RJohn713@aol.com wrote:

> I have heard from JCO that the "most important" review of BLACK WATER will be
> in the magazine OPERA NEWS, which I can't find here.  If anyone reads this
> magazine, or has access to it, I would appreciate knowing the content of the
> review.  I am at the copyediting stage of the biography, the last chance to
> make any changes, and I would like to make note of significant reviews.
>  Thanks--
> 
> Greg Johnson
> 


hi. i just logged into my university library's system and they subscribe 
to it. i imagine it would be in the march issue, which they have. when i 
go into school tomorrow, i'll try to find it and xerox it. where should i 
send it to?
opera news is also online (i found it just by doing a web search) but 
their back issues only go to april. they're still updating it. 
:) karen



From:  ken_y@primenet.com
Date: Sun, 29 Jun 1997 11:28:14 -0700
To: jco@usfca.edu
 Subject:Re: The Crosswicks Horror

I'm an Oates fan who was hooked by Bloodsmoor and reeled in by Winterthurn.

Is Dutton the ONLY way that The Crosswicks Horror can be published?  What
about a limited edition subscription?

What about electronic publication?

What about a video game, with the original work included as an appendix to
the manual?

 What about a spy camera at midnight and street corner transactions in
plain brown paper?

     ---==>Ken

Maintained by Randy Souther
Last updated 6-26-97
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